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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Lost my rig today

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2270 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/27/2014 : 19:17:34

I thought that would get your attention! Fortunately, it was not my C250 rig. It was the lateen rig on my Phantom. And the damage was temporary and turned out to be easily fixable.

If you're familiar with lateen rigs like on a Sunfish, you'll remember that there are a couple of blocks on the boom to lead the mainsheet from the aft traveler along the boom, then to a cam cleat in front of the cockpit. We had a rare vigorous breeze on Lake Wallenpaupack today, and were beating to windward when there was a loud pop and our boom jerked to lee. One of the blocks on the boom was gone (later found safely on the mainsheet) and its bail was detached.

We immediately turned around and ran DDW back to shore, which minimized the stresses on the remaining block. Upon closer inspection, I discovered that a rivet had broken, causing the bail to open. The biggest casualty was losing a couple hours of prime sailing conditions while I drove to the Honesdale Home Depot to buy a rivet gun and 120 rivet assortment. I now have 119 rivets that I don't need.

I'll drill out and redo the others over the winter

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Edited by - TakeFive on 07/27/2014 19:20:34

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9017 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2014 : 19:51:25

On a RENTED Laser on a little lake in Michigan years ago, another guy and I were planing on a screaming beam reach, when suddenly the mast crashed down on the deck, leaving a small section or the deck ripped up. We paddled back to shore with the daggerboard, and returned the boat to the rental store... They were convinced we'd run it into a bridge or something. The manufacturer sent a rep to examine, and determined that a small piece of plastic bag (or whatever) had gotten between the mast socket and the hull during construction, so the socket was never properly bonded to the bottom. (That bond is all that holds the unstayed mast up.) So, I didn't have to pay for the boat.

You never know for sure!

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2014 : 20:10:10

A close friend of mine was sailing her Dolphin Sr on a windy day and a gybe busted her mast socket free from the bottom of her hull too. I fixed it for her since I had fixed wing sockets on my Hobie 17. She was very grateful and promptly busted it out again... this time she had it professionally rebuilt. Since I have been very heavey most of my life I have never sailed a board boat, now that I am under 200 I think I better get that done.
BTW we also had a lot of Phantoms at our lake in the 80s, red and white.

Edited by - pastmember on 07/27/2014 20:11:08

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2270 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2014 : 20:24:44

I love the Phantom. They took all the mistakes made on the Sunfish and fixed them. The one-piece molding for deck and cockpit is much more comfortable than the awful deck cutout on the Sunfish's cockpit.

I've seen several hull carcasses for Phantom and Sunfish that had the mast socket broken. On these boats that sort of damage appears to be fatal.

The Phantom carries both me and my wife together, so should be plenty for you no matter what your weight. As long as you're mobile enough to shift your weight quickly when tacking.

Edited by - TakeFive on 07/27/2014 20:25:38

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2014 : 03:33:50

Rick if this is up on Wally, next time, stop by Ironwood point if there are any of the sail club around... someone is bound to have a rivet tool, and rivets... I usually have them, but don't keep mine on the boat.

Also if you ever wanna go out on a keelboat up there, check in at ironwood... our club is always looking for (experienced) crew. our website is trashed right now http://www.paupacksailingclub.com/, but we have the schedule posted for races too... you show up in the morning (around 10am) someone will take on crew including myself! Afterward they have a nice picnic too.

Were you out yesterday in the phantom? Saw some sunfish out... winds were good early, then got kind of light in the afternoon. We had our race 4 for the season.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9017 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2014 : 06:05:13

Our "Sunfish" was actually a Sunfish hull and rig with a deck like the Phantom--molded cockpit and coaming--made for and sold by Montgomery Ward. (...a clue on how long ago we bought that.) The real Sunfish cockpit rim was useful for hooking your toes while hiking out. I missed that on ours.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2014 : 04:31:55

I kept pulling the vang hound off the mast fastened with rivets. Switched to screws then installed U bolt but this is at the base of the mast. Screws for fittings on the boom is my choice.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9017 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2014 : 05:01:44

For that strap, which is pulled downward (with some shocks when you jibe), I'd be concerned a self-tapping screw doesn't have that much more purchase than a rivet. I think the proper fitting there is a little bail bolted horizontally through the boom--like maybe 90-04 below. Then you'll need either a ring for your block, or a little swivel block.

Actually, I'm not sure what you have qualifies for the term "bail"--its just a strap. The mainsheet should have a bail, in case the wind ever blows again.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/29/2014 05:16:01

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2014 : 08:13:14

Isn't a fitting called a hound is what is seen on the C25 for the vang and on the boom. A 3/8 bolt on the end of the boom used for a swivel of the main sheet but I have had that pull loose with the fitting. I guess the underway fix is a choice. A #10 or #12 size screw will be more secure than any 1/8 rivet. The rivet should be stainless and avoid the aluminum with a steel pin. My sailing kids put me in repairing not only the Sunfish, Sailfish, Banshi but a bunch of ElToros. Race days tested everything.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2014 : 17:02:25

It seems if one is worried about SS pop rivets or tapped or self tapping screws pulling out then through bolting is the only solution that will allow one to sleep.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2270 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2014 : 18:00:35

quote:
Originally posted by pastmember

It seems if one is worried about SS pop rivets or tapped or self tapping screws pulling out then through bolting is the only solution that will allow one to sleep.

I'm not worried about that stuff. And I'm sleeping fine, thank you. The aluminum rivet that I used to replace the original aluminum rivet is holding up just fine, and schnool can attest that we've had three consecutive mornings of solid breezes to test out the new rivet. I expect the new rivet may last almost as long as the 29 year old original rivet.

A screw would definitely not work, since the spar is way too thin. I'd estimate that the 15-foot long aluminum tube weighs less than 5 lb. A through-bolt would not work either, because it would chafe the sail on the other side of the spar.

There are a dozen or so other rivets in other places. They are holding up fine in a few high stress areas. The two spars that make up the boom and "mast" of this lateen rig are connected by through-bolted screw eyes. Those are the only through-bolts on the rig, and they are beyond the clew of the sail, so there is no chafe.

I appreciate all the well intentioned advice, and it's fun to speculate and re-engineer things, but after 29 years I think the manufacturer's original selection of fasteners has proven to have a pretty good lifetime.

Time to go sailing, so to speak.

Edited by - TakeFive on 07/29/2014 18:04:44

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