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Stays and shrouds

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Voyager
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Response Posted - 01/01/2014 : 10:02:27

Scott,
Thanks for the estimate of the overhang. I thought that with a 28' mast and about 14' between the mast tabernacle and the transom, a brace would sit just about at the balancing point. The good news is that where Passage is situated in the yard there's an old 35' wooden project sailboat about 3' directly behind me, so she should catch anything that drops off.
Once the mast is down, I'll strap down the foil to several 1x2s and try to remove the spindle. Then I'll move the mast forward.
Before dropping anything I will try to get up underneath the spindle. I might be able to raise it up a few inches using the halyard.

Edited by - Voyager on 01/01/2014 10:05:40

Voyager
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Response Posted - 01/01/2014 : 18:54:52

Here's what I found today - I disconnected the clamps and was able to raise the entire assembly a few inches to see the turnbuckle and the furler roller/spacer at the bottom of the turnbuckle.

Good detail of the bottom of the forestay turnbuckle and underneath the furler body.

Details of the bottom of the forestay.

An additional shot showing the turnbuckle and furler body.

Looks like I can connect the block and tackle to the turnbuckle, leave the furler in place, then drop the mast. Alternately, I can take the furler apart piece-by-piece, removing the rivets from each joint of the foils, take that all away, then drop the mast. I figure two solid weekends - hopefully the weather will cooperate!

Edited by - on

islander
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Response Posted - 01/02/2014 : 14:28:29

See, I thought you could slide the furler up, The black plastic spacer clamps to the T-bolt and keeps the body centered. I am guessing that there is a ridge up inside of the furler body. The ridge sits on top of the spacer when you lower the body over the spacer. I don't see any reason to take apart the foil, They just wouldn't design it to be that difficult to replace the forstay. When the mast is down I'm sure all you have to do is take apart the turnbuckle and pull the forstay out from the top. You can attach a messenger line to the bottom stud first so it will come out the top, It will help in sliding the new forstay back down through the foil. Piece of cake Bruce.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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Response Posted - 01/02/2014 : 14:56:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 Piece of cake Bruce.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Just secure the mast with a temporary forestay first!

Paul

Edited by - on

Voyager
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Response Posted - 01/02/2014 : 18:01:41

Ah yes! I have secured both halyards to the bow cleats for the time being.

I will probably take the following steps:
1. Secure both halyards to the bow. Install the transom mast-catcher - brace.
2. Remove the forward lower shrouds and loosen the upper shrouds just a bit.
3. Attach the A-frame to the forward lower shroud chainplates.
4. Raise the furler body - undo the forestay turnbuckle.
5. Try to remove the furler body from the foils. If this is possible, that is.
6. Reconnect the turnbuckle to the forestay end, and attach the A-frame.
7. Connect the block and tackle between the forestay turnbuckle and the forestay chainplate. The mainsheet should be long enough if I used it as a 2:1 tackle (I think I have 60' of line).
8. Put one man on the block and tackle and another man alongside the mast on the cabintop.
9. Gently let the mast down. Secure the foil to the mast.
10. Remove the mast bolt from the tabernacle and move the mast forward.
Then the work begins!

Edited by - Voyager on 01/02/2014 18:03:07

islander
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Response Posted - 01/03/2014 : 07:55:18

Just a few pointers to your plan,
Referring to #2 You will also loosen your backstay and aft lower shrouds @ 5 turns. This will give you enough slack to be able to disconnect the forstay from the stem fitting tang.
#4,5 and 6 Not necessary to do at this time. Disassembly of the foil ,Drum, Turnbuckle will be done when the mast is down and the furler is strapped to the mast. Simply disconnect the bolt/clevis pin from the T-Bolt toggle and the stem fitting tang and reconnect it to the A-Frame.
The mainsheet has more than enough line.
When attaching the mainsheet make sure to have the block with the cleat closest to the deck. Pull in all the line so that the two pulleys come close together and lock the line in the cleat. You can connect the mainsheet to anyone of the holes in in the stem fitting.

Edited by - on

mrapkins
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124 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2014 : 07:24:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I atached my mainsheet from the stem fitting to one tang and the forstay/furler to the other.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I lowered a mast yesterday and contemplated what you suggested. However since the forestay attaches to the stem, I cannot see how you can insert the mainsheet between these 2 points (forestay and stem) without there being significant slack - slack which in this case will allow the mast to begin to fall. Do you attach the jib halyard to the stem and use this initially???

We attached the jib halyard to the eye at the apex of the A-frame and then attached the mainsheet to the eye at the apex of the A-frame and the stem. In this way, the mast was always fully supported. Once we had the jib/mainsheet connected and tensioned we could disconnect the forestay. Is this as clear as mud???

Edited by - on

islander
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3993 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2014 : 14:34:46

Sure there is a little slack initially but the mast only has to start going back very little for that to be taken up. I actually had to go to the mast and give it a push to get it going. The amount of slack is very little in my A Frame because it is about 9ft. The apex/tip of the frame falls short of reaching the stem tang thus taking up the slack that you are referring to.

Edited by - on

Voyager
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5232 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2014 : 15:21:11

Nice day so I went over to visit Passage in the yard to take inventory of the parts and pieces I should order prior to dropping the mast in March. CDs website is not completely user-friendly as you can never really be certain what your ordering.

My list so far for CD is:
1. C25 Forestay - this is uniquely identifiable on the site.
2. Sheaves - I have rope halyards, not wire. It looks like there is a forward and aft sheave on the mast top, and probably two pairs of sheaves - side-by-side x fore and aft. Should I order 4 black ball-bearing sheaves? How about the spindles, should I order these as well? I can't see the top of the mast and so haven't seen what it looks like. Anybody have a photo?
3. Sixteen 1inch long clevis pins, washers and circle clips. Are these 5/16"?
4. Two extra-large clevis pins with washers and circle clips.
5. A 45-foot length of 1/2-inch line as a topping lift. Should this be any special material, or standard braided line?
6. VHF antenna, plus a 45-foot length of RG-6 weatherproof coaxial cable with a VHF connector.
7. I also need a shackle for my sheet block, since its beginning to wear where it meets the boom-end tang. I wonder what size it is?
I plan to rewrap (re-tape) my spreader boots, tighten down all the screws, nuts and bolts and generously apply Locktite. Has anybody done that?
The windex bracket appears a little bent and I'm missing one of the two red windex tabs. Anybody know of a useful substitute I can epoxy into place? I thought about using some red or orange day-glo tape.
Any special tools needed for any of these steps?
Once I get the mast down, I plan to secure the furler body and foils with a few pieces of 1x3 screwed together end to end. I don't need to bend that...

I just want to be ready to get the jobs done promptly and not have to wait for supplies.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9014 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2014 : 16:27:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 
2. Sheaves - I have rope halyards, not wire. It looks like there is a forward and aft sheave on the mast top, and probably two pairs of sheaves - side-by-side x fore and aft. Should I order 4 black ball-bearing sheaves? How about the spindles, should I order these as well? I can't see the top of the mast and so haven't seen what it looks like.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Yup--you have two pairs of sheaves (which I replaced when I converted to all-rope). I had to have them custom-made back then--they don't have bearings. CD apparently has that covered now. The pins (spindles) should be OK, but it might take a few whacks to loosen them from the casting.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/18/2014 16:29:57

islander
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3993 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2014 : 17:17:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I plan to secure the furler body and foils with a few pieces of 1x3 screwed together end to end.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Bruce the foil is very flexable, It only needs to be tied to the mast every 4-5 feet with some line to support it. My topping lift is the coated wire type from CD. It attaches on the same pin as the backstay and has a small block on the bottom that a small line runs through to the boom for adjustments. Probably a better upgrade over using line. Definatly outlast the line.http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/2283_40/topping-lift-wire-only-for-c-25.cfm

Edited by - on

britinusa
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Response Posted - 01/18/2014 : 17:50:32

I presume the vinyl covering is to reduce chafe against the sail.

Our C250 has a 'rope' line from the mast to the boom.

paul

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Voyager
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Response Posted - 01/18/2014 : 21:39:58

The good news is that I can use either wire or rope since the topping lift runs above and outside the profile of the sail.

On my 16 footer, I placed a small block dangling off the aft end of mast top. I ran a line up from the aft end of the boom through the block, then back down to the boom end.

I can probably do the same thing on Passage.

Edited by - Voyager on 01/18/2014 21:50:17

islander
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Response Posted - 01/19/2014 : 06:40:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I placed a small block dangling off the aft end of mast top. I ran a line up from the aft end of the boom through the block, then back down to the boom end. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That is exactly how mine works. There is an eye strap on one side of the boom and a small cheek block and cleat on the other side. The line goes from the eye strap up to the block at the end of the topping lift then down to the cheek block then forward to the cleat. Adjustments are made at the cleat. Bruce, How many of the Windex tabs are you missing? I have one tab from my old Windex if you need just one.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9014 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2014 : 10:58:16

Bruce, do you not still have the micro-fiddle-jam block on the topping lift, with a smaller 3:1 line for adjusting just above the boom? I rigged that based on Jim Baumgart's system I saw in San Diego. I just wondered if it was passed along to you like that by the owner between us...

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Voyager
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Response Posted - 01/23/2014 : 22:28:49

Dave - yes the current setup consists of a single length of line from the mast top fitting down to the fiddle-block gizmo. This allows me to adjust the height of the end of the boom from about -5 degrees below to + 15 degrees above horizontal. I frequently raise the height of the boom while at anchor to prevent head bonks.
The advantage of Scott's approach is that it's a piece of cake to replace the topping lift once it wears out.

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Voyager
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Response Posted - 01/23/2014 : 22:29:47

Scott - yes I'm missing one windex tab.

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islander
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Response Posted - 01/26/2014 : 09:42:15

OK, I'll bring it with me .They are very stingy with the epoxy so I put extra epoxy on my new Windex. When the mast is down you can do the same.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> it's a piece of cake to replace the topping lift once it wears out.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Exactly, Easy to reach/replace the short line.

Edited by - islander on 01/26/2014 09:48:43

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 01/26/2014 : 10:43:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 ...On my 16 footer, I placed a small block dangling off the aft end of mast top. I ran a line up from the aft end of the boom through the block, then back down to the boom end...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...meaning two full lengths of rope for the topping lift? I'll suggest that's twice as much as you need in terms of weight aloft and rope to catch the leech when tacking with the TL slackened. (I think it'll look a little odd, too.)

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Voyager
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Response Posted - 02/26/2014 : 22:03:39

So now I'll order the forestay and 4 ball bearing sheaves so they should arrive by mid March. I plan to locate 40 ft of RG-6 coaxial cable plus a connector for the VHF antenna, plus the antenna itself. Windex needs a bit of bending back into shape, but the bearing seems sound so I think I just need the orange dot on the end and some 5 minute epoxy. Scott mentioned he has a spare dot. I have a bunch of fresh clevis pins and circlips for the stays and shrouds, so I think I should be good. I'll take another look at the topping lift. I've got plenty of cup grease to go around. Maybe after I get the hang of dropping the mast it won't be such a big deal.

Edited by - Voyager on 02/26/2014 22:04:27

islander
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Response Posted - 02/27/2014 : 07:24:18

Bruce, Might also be a good time to replace the spreader tips maybe?

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pastmember
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Response Posted - 02/27/2014 : 18:39:00

No matter how often you drop a mast it is always a serious event. I always have an extra man to scramble and clear whatever I have inevitably failed to provide for. That extra man and always having the place ready where you are going to set the mast down helps a lot.

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Voyager
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Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 19:40:53

Scott, are you talking about the rubber boots or the brackets attached to the mast? The boots look fine - they could use a little tape. One of the brackets is a little bent - it'll probably withstand some straightening...

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islander
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Response Posted - 03/01/2014 : 07:54:29

I was talking about the rubber boots. If you think they are ok then replacement is up to you. Keep in mine that they may have to last another 5-10 yrs unless you plan on dropping the mast more frequently. When I had my mast down I replaced them along with new seizing wire that holds the upper shrouds in the spreader tip groove along with all new cotter pins everywhere. The upper shrouds run loosely through that seizing wire with a slight sawing action every time you tack.

Edited by - islander on 03/01/2014 08:08:01

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 03/01/2014 : 08:36:59

Yep--I'd do all new cotter pins, including the ones in the clevis pins in the mast-head and the shroud tangs. I'd hate to find one of those little buggers lying on the deck!

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