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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/04/2006 : 22:17:40

http://www.concentric.net/~Cs-cb/Sailing/man/
interesting look at our heritage, especially the how to build the kit pages.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5853 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2006 : 08:31:58

What's the connection between Coronado and Catalina, Frank, and is there someplace where we can read about the connection?

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Kip C
Navigator

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USA
243 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2006 : 09:01:30

Hi Steve,
The connection is Frank Butler. Here's a article on Frank and where Catalina Yachts evolved from. http://www.boatus.com/goodoldboat/catalina.htm

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5853 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2006 : 10:08:09

I had seen that article before, but forgot about the Coronado connection. It was well worth reading again.

One point that was made in the article is that Catalinas are 100% repairable. The deck is installed on the boat early in the manufacturing process, so that everything inside (bulkheads, furnishings, etc.) has to be able to be brought in through one of the hatches. If it can be brought in, it can also be taken out and replaced. If you have the time and the skills (and the money) to fix it, anything on the boat can be fixed. The article also said that you can get new replacement parts from the factory for any Catalina, no matter how old. I knew you could get rudders and keels and such, but didn't realize you could get virtually anything from the factory.

I just checked out some Coronados on Yachtworld and they still bring surprisingly good prices, considering their age. They must be pretty well regarded.

Thanks for posting the site, Frank!

Edited by - Steve Milby on 01/05/2006 10:21:02

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2006 : 13:14:34

Well, that explains why my 1969 Coronado/Capri 15 has a Catalina nameplate there in the back.

I'm busy restoring this boat. By the way, its in great condition for being over 35 years old. Under all the grime, its in much better condition than my 1978 C25.

But the fiberglass - over - wood rudder and centerboard are going to be needing some real attention.

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2006 : 09:41:00

The article on the Catalina Yachts backstory was really interesting Kip but once again, no real mention of the 25. It seems that Catalina never focuses any attention on the C 25, and one of their most successful models is consistantly ignored as part of the history of the company.

The article did do a good job of describing Frank Butler's intimate involvement with his customers though.

Back in '83 when I bought Silver Girl she was damaged at the dealer's yard. The aluminum rub rail was damaged pretty badly when they unloaded her from the truck.

The boat sat at the dealer from May through the middle of June while I tried to get the dealer to make repairs and commission her with no results. Apparantly, the dealer was putting the work off since he got a better offer for the boat (from another individual who had seen her in the yard and wanted a boat that was immediately available: I was tipped off by the dealer's foreman to whom I had already given a generous tip to commission her right) and was trying to sell it out from under me by stalling and getting me to walk away from the deal.

Some of the BS I got from the dealer was that parts weren't available and they probably couldn't get the boat ready until the middle of August which meant I would miss most of the sailing season.

Finally I got the bright idea of calling Catalina to complain and I was amazed that the person at Catalina who handled my complaint was Frank Butler himself who was immediately put on the phone with me.

Frank told me that he would call the dealer, read him the riot act, and get back to me shortly; which he did the same day. He told me he would "red label" the parts to the dealer overnight and the boat would be ready in no time.

In a couple of days I was sailing my new boat and will never forget how Frank got personally involved and resolved my problem, especially when my 25 wasn't even close to being one of Catalina's priciest models.

That's customer service and probably why the company has endured.

Edited by - oldsalt on 01/07/2006 10:08:10

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5853 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2006 : 10:11:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The article on the Catalina Yachts backstory was really interesting Kip but once again, no real mention of the 25. It seems that Catalina never focuses any attention on the C 25, and one of their most successful models is consistantly ignored as part of the history of the company.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">The article wasn't written by Catalina. It was written by a freelance writer for Good Old Boat magazine. If Catalina had written it, I suspect the C25 would have been been given attention, because the C25 was a big seller for Catalina.

It's nice to see anything good written about Catalina in a commercial sailing magazine. Catalina didn't buy any advertising in the sailing mags for many years, until after they bought Morgan, and, as a result, the only time Catalina was ever mentioned during that era was when it was unfavorable. I was always amazed that the publications could act as if the biggest boat builder in the US didn't exist.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 01/07/2006 10:20:43

Kip C
Navigator

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USA
243 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2006 : 10:42:44

I think the reason the the C25 gets missed is the C22, C27 and I believe, the C30 had longer production runs. Even on the Catalina's Web site, their article on Catalina's history doesn't mention the C25.

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2006 : 11:14:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Kip C
 Even on the Catalina's Web site, their article on Catalina's history doesn't mention the C25.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's the point Kip and Steve. They never mention the C 25 which, considering the 6000 or so sold during a 20 year production run, has been one of their most successful models.

In fact, numbers like that are very significant industry wide for boats larger than sailing dinghys.

For the life of me I can't figure it out but smart guy like Frank Butler must have a reason.

Freelance writers depend greatly on info "offered" by those they interview and Catalina, to my knowledge, never acknowledges the 25.

I've noticed this again and again in various articles about the company, as well as the official history of Catalina Yachts. Catalina never talks about the C 25.

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2006 : 11:38:54

Perhaps the boat is not that good......Is Frank ashamed of the 25? The fact that there is a web community as good as this devoted to one of his boats should compel him to recognize us. I think the officers should print this post and mail it to Frank.

Tom.

Edited by - on

Kip C
Navigator

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USA
243 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2006 : 12:54:30

Maybe the other sizes are Catalina's targeted market. In other words, more profitable. Most admit a 25ft sail boat is pushing it as far as the trailer sailor. Which maybe why the c22 has done so well.

Edited by - Kip C on 01/07/2006 13:03:42

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2006 : 14:25:34

Come to think of it, back in the day, all of the Catalina models were Frank Butler designs; but was the 25, in fact, designed by someone else?

The C 25 did have, for the industry as a whole (where a few hundred, or even far fewer boats were considered a great success), a great run of about 6000 units, but at the end, sales did fall off precipitously.

The move towards smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles probably called for a lighter trailer sailer; ergo the C 250 which is likely much more economical to build.

The production cost of the C 25 probably exceeded what Catalina could charge the consumer in today's market as well. I wonder what a "new" Catalina 25 would have to hit the market at today.

Although the 25 and 250 could reasonably be considered to be aimed at a different market segment....those who primarily trailer and those who don't, I'm sure it didn't make much sense to produce two 25 foot models with a somewhat overlapping maket segment.

Besides, the C 25s have a dedicated owner base and didn't "fall apart" like some other builders' 25 foot boats probably due to superior construction as well as the dedication of their owners who regard them highly, and keep them shipshape so "new" C 25s would be in an uneconomical competition with a glut of used.

Anyway, I believe that the C 25 molds were destroyed in a fire at the plant and that was that.

But the consistent lack of acknowledgement of our vessels by the builder ticks me off to no end.

Edited by - oldsalt on 01/07/2006 14:31:20

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5853 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2006 : 18:54:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Perhaps the boat is not that good......Is Frank ashamed of the 25?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Not a chance! The Capri 26 is bigger and lighter in weight and has a more modern design, but the C25 is faster. The C250 is much lighter and has a more modern design, but the C25 is faster. The C27 is widely regarded as a good club and beer can racer, but the C25 can beat it consistently. the C25 is one of the best performing boats Catalina has ever built, certainly for its size.

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