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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/09/2022 : 08:48:17

This is a link to a video of a Catalina 22 motorsailing downwind in 20 kt winds and 2 meter waves at between 7-11 kts boat speed through the Estero Elefantes (Chile). It was probably not possible to turn around and motorsail to windward in those conditions, but they made a very fast passage downwind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTxokaKKbtw

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2022 : 07:00:55

Steve, nice footage.Before I looked at the map, I assumed that the area appeared much like the area around Seattle and Vancouver: Pacific Coastal temperate rainforests with dozens of channels through an archipelago of islands. I was wrong because instead, it�s a deep fjord with a dead end in the southern end, so there should be much less substantial tidal currents to push a boat along with the winds and the waves.
Nonetheless, it looked like some fearsome wind, weather and waves for a little 22 footer. The crew seemed to be in control, handling the conditions well enough, however, they seemed to be committed to completing their downwind cruise. Here�s a map on the area between Santiago and the Tierra del Fuego for a sense of the area.
https://mapcarta.com/20128562/Map

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2022 : 09:56:54

The video illustrates some good points about heavy weather. First, running downwind is much easier and safer in heavy weather than trying to beat to windward, pounding into the waves. Downwind, the small boat is able to ride fairly smoothly with the waves.

Second, it appears he's running his small engine at full throttle. That's important because, as nearly as possible, you want to match the speed of the waves coming behind you. If a wave overtakes you from behind and rolls under the boat, the boat gains speed as it's stern is lifted by the wave and it surfs down the wave's face. But, after the peak of the wave passes under the keel, the boat speed drops suddenly and the boat is left in the trough. The next wave approaches at it's full speed while the boat is nearly dead in the water, and with no steerageway. If the boat has turned sideways to the waves, the next wave will roll the boat over. By running the engine at full speed, you might be able to keep the boat moving fast enough so that you can stay ahead of the waves, constantly riding on the face of a wave, instead of having it pass under the boat. Even if you can't, the engine keeps driving the boat in the trough between two waves, and provides steerageway so you can keep the stern pointed toward the waves, preventing the boat from being broached by the next wave.

Your map illustrates another useful point. It's important to plan ahead. If you know that the fjord or lake or bay dead ends ahead, you have to find shelter before you get there, because you can't just turn the boat around and claw away from that lee shore, especially when all you have flying is a small jib and no mainsail. The map shows lots of islands with waterways separating them, Any of those little waterways would provide good shelter from the wind. The land and trees on the islands probably make the wind between them almost calm, and the waves negligible.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2022 : 19:40:41

Steve, that brings up an always-controversial point - a sea anchor. If your engine quits or you cannot keep up with the waves, you can always throw out a drogue or sea anchor (or even a warp of line) behind the boat to keep the stern pointed towards the waves and the bow pointed downwind. Lots of boaters own a drogue but have never deployed it because they�ve never found themselves in such a precarious situation. But if you do, most boaters have had zero experience managing a sea anchor. It�s very possible that it could get you into deeper trouble than just running the engine for all it�s worth.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2022 : 21:10:12

Sea anchors work, but they're only useful where you have lots of sea room, such as in the open ocean. They don't hold a boat in place. They only slow it's drift downwind. In most bays and lakes there isn't enough sea room to deploy a sea anchor. In a big lake or bay, you have to find shelter from the wind and waves by sailing or motor sailing into the lee of land, such as behind a point of land, or behind an island or into the mouth of a river. If you're really desperate and have good ground tackle, you can even anchor in open water. I once anchored my boat near a windward shore in the main body of the Chesapeake Bay while a thunderstorm passed over. I saw a friend anchor directly underneath the Chesapeake Bay Bridge in 55 kt winds, because his motor died and the boat was adrift with no steerageway.

Most of us won't sail our boats very far offshore, but many will sail on a big bay or great lake, and, even in severe weather there are usually lots of ways to deal with it.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2022 : 07:31:30

It�s always surprised me how quickly a quiet bay or large lake can become a washing machine with 3-4 ft breaking waves in the midst of a summer storm or a passing cold front. While the fjord in Chile was dozens of miles long (so there was essentially enough sea room for awhile), that�s not usually the case. Getting behind an island or dropping an anchor with sufficient scope (a few 100 feet) and weight might be a good emergency procedure under those circumstances, and is probably a better option.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 12/11/2022 07:33:32

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2022 : 14:00:54

How about checking a weather/wind report for the day. How about the unsecured gas tank on a rocking boat ready to slide off the seat. These are the guys you read about or hear on the radio.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 12/11/2022 14:02:01

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2022 : 21:05:38

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

...If a wave overtakes you from behind and rolls under the boat, the boat gains speed as it's stern is lifted by the wave and it surfs down the wave's face. But, after the peak of the wave passes under the keel, the boat speed drops suddenly and the boat is left in the trough. The next wave approaches at it's full speed while the boat is nearly dead in the water, and with no steerageway.

As a crest passes, the motion of the water reverses such that for a moment the water is moving in the direction of the wave, and then reverses. In the end, the water stays where it was. This is why many sailboats are pushed abeam to following seas--at the crest of the wave, their rudders are momentarily set opposite to where the helmsman is trying to steer to correct from the way the boat is turning, because the water is momentarily crossing the rudder from behind rather from forward. It's a difficult condition to learn to react to unless the boat is traveling substantially faster than the waves or can hold its position on the front-side of a wave. The "Water Waves" (blue) graphic here illustrates--watch a single dot on the graph as waves pass through.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/11/2022 21:08:09

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.