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Refinishing brightwork: where’s the Cetol?

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Voyager
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Initially Posted - 04/10/2022 : 08:07:08

It’s been about 5 years and it’s now waaaay past time to refinish the brightwork on Passage. Last weekend we had a warmish Saturday morning, so I pulled all the wood trim from the exterior of the boat and brought it back to my shed for stripping and refinishing.
I usually sand and scrape the wood to remove the finish, and the old Cetol usually coorperates. I use my variable speed palm sander with vacuum attachments with 220 or finer grit paper. I’m careful not to work too aggressively especially on the edges and ends of the material, and will often use a sanding pad with elbow grease on the finer details.
I checked my old gallon can of Cetol and thought I could add a little thinner to freshen it up, but it was nearly solid, so it was time for a new can. I choose the natural color to put on 3 layers of base coat, and have a quart of clear for over the top protection.
I can usually buy it at my local paint shop for 1/2 what WM or other boat stores get. My trusty paint store told me, “nope, I can’t get Sikkens Cetol anymore. I think PPG bought ‘em and I just don’t have any, can’t get it”
“What the hell?” I said. “I’ve been buying it for years!”
I called around and spoke with a few other local shops and hardware stores. I pieced together a story: you can buy PPG ProLuxe for exterior work like decks and pergolas, and teak furniture. They also sell a “door and window” treatment that comes in quarts. Seems that PPG bought the Sikkens name a while ago but kept it as a separate brand for both home use and boats until this or last year. You can still find the Sikkens brand at boat chandleries however for home use, it’s now called ProLuxe.
It looks good and identical to the original on a test piece of material. I’ll post an update once I refinish all my pieces.
Just goes to show you, they just can’t leave nothing alone!

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT

Buzz Maring
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Response Posted - 04/10/2022 : 10:21:59

OH OH ... what if your preferred tint is Cetol "Light" ... ???

Buzz Maring

~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68
Lake Dallas, TX

Voyager
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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2022 : 16:05:11

I think it’s still available. Here’s the press release on the product from PPG
Here’s the general product literature for PROLUXE.
I thought that I saw the clear coat in the product listing. It’s still available in quarts from WestMarine at $48 + shipping.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 04/10/2022 16:09:04

Voyager
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Response Posted - 04/10/2022 : 17:44:18

While many people know this trick it is nonetheless worth reminding folks who are fixin to strip their Cetol.
Try a pull scraper instead of a sander. Makes quick work of flat sections.
Here’s a pretty good example https://www.amazon.com/Red-Devil-3160-Four-Edge-Heavy-Duty/dp/B00004YNMZ/ref=asc_df_B00004YNMZ/
It’s good to learn how to keep the blade sharp.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2022 : 18:35:46

I'm glad you're keeping that real teak looking good in the war against the sun... I bailed out and had PlasTeak make me four custom handrails that look fresh-off-the-tree all year, every year. (My interior teak is still real.) I know, I know... just an option.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

glivs
Admiral

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822 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2022 : 04:18:06

I didn’t know about Cetol but discovered Sikkens (stains) were no longer sold locally last summer when refinishing the exterior of the house in prepping it for sale. Fortunately alternatives were available.

My concern this spring is VC-17. Last I looked ( ~2 weeks ago) it was not even listed on WestMarine or Jamestown web sites. Defender had two quarts in their scratch & dent section but for pick up only…..a bit too far a drive….

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2022 : 10:32:02

West and Defender both list all of the Cetols--for very different prices. (Guess who's a lot cheaper.) Both say they have it in the store here...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Voyager
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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2022 : 12:44:22

VC-17 is a super slick bottom paint for racers if memory serves. Gerry, are you saying that it may have been sunsetted? Copper-based bottom paint in general may eventually be in the bullseye for environmental issues.

Dave - I looked during Defender’s spring sale and it was about $12 less expensive than WestM, however, shipping charges made up the difference. I am probably going to let the teak go another 5 years, and if I can do plasteak next time, I will.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT

bigelowp
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1736 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2022 : 16:53:08

I have never been a Cetol fan -- I prefer annually cleaning and applying teak oil. In New Englands short season looks great and has some "grip". As Dave "Stink Potter" says the "Plan Teak" looks great for grab rails but for other teak trim may not be available. I still believe scrub clean/apply teak oil may be the best (and in my opinion the prettiest) solution.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 04/11/2022 : 21:01:41

I use to use Cetol as it seemed easier prep when re-applying it versus a regular varnish. Light sanding and/or scrubbing seemed to do the trick. But after 2-3 years, there seemed to be more chipped off areas that light sanding and re-applying Cetol still left areas that were visibly lighter and/or could see the outline of the chipped or worn off areas. I eventually decided to strip off the finish.

I have now been using teak oil for the past several years. Teak oil also has it's pro/con as well but I prefer it. Teak oil will generally need to be re-applied frequently (perhaps every 2 months) or else if it is left to weather/deteriorate, then needs to be bleached out before starting a new treatment. I decided to make Sunbrella covers covering all exterior wood including the cockpit coamings. No doubt the removing of the covers and re-installing after sailing adds to pre/post sailing time, but the benefit is that I have not had to bleach out the exterior wood and therefore the re-applying teak oil semiannual or just annually is a fairly easy task. It takes longer to apply masking tape to avoid staining fiberglas areas adjacent to the exterior wood, then just brushing on the teak oil.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 04/11/2022 21:09:30

glivs
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Response Posted - 04/13/2022 : 05:07:32

Not trying to hijack the Cetol/teak oil discussion...but Bruce, I haven't yet researched the VC-17 issue to know why it is scarce. I don't like using Cu paints but I refinished the bottom of Great Escape in 2012 and was looking for something that was quick drying and would not notably build up over time. VC-17 has served me well, fall/spring prep is easy and I can paint where the boat rests on the cradle pads while it is hanging from the traveler lift just before launch. I actually bought a gallon of water-based, non-Cu bottom paint a couple of years ago as the marketing was that it could be applied over “most” bottom paints. In reading the fine print after purchasing it, however, VC-17 was one of the exceptions. I considered restriping the bottom but priorities have fallen elsewhere.

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

GaryB
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Response Posted - 04/13/2022 : 11:33:01

So... I'm about to tackle the job of re-doing my teak as well.

It's been awhile since the teak was reconditioned. Is it necessary to bleach the teak before/after sanding and before reapplying Cetol?

Is it possible to sand and re-apply Cetol without removing the teak from the boat? Anything to be aware of? Any tricks to applying the Cetol without staining the fiberglass?

If it's best to remove the teak... I'm an hour from the boat so it will take several days for me to remove, sand, reapply, and re-install the teak. What's the best way to protect the screw/bolt holes from the weather while the teak is off?

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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - GaryB on 04/13/2022 11:34:37

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 04/13/2022 : 11:54:07

If all that was ever on the teak was Cetol, then you may get away with sanding it off. If the Cetol is in good shape then light sanding or scrubbing is all that is necessary. But ifthere are significant chipped off areas, then sand as much off as possible. If any of the areas have regular varnish on with or without Cetol on top of it, then removing regular varnish with sandpaper, alone, is difficult, especially regarding the grab rails that has round,curved areas. I wound up removing varnish mostly with a paint stripper (liquid or gel - gel is less messy,. You can try the eco-friendly less toxic strippers but they do not work as well as the stronger strippers). The grab rails are best done by removing them and reconditioning them at home. Removing the grab rails off the deck is fairly easy and re-installing not that hard....unless one of the screws is stripped and you cannot easily install the nut(s) in the cabin top. I had that issue but a small thread repair tool/bit easily fixed the threads in less than a minute. If you need the thread repair tool, I’ll check the name of it - believe I bought it on Amazon. Biggest issue is finding it when you need - I keep mine with my Dremel bits...since it is easy and best used with a Dremel.....and therefore I always know it’s with my Dremel bits.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 04/13/2022 12:01:13

Voyager
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Response Posted - 04/13/2022 : 12:04:04

GaryB, notwithstanding Larry’s comments, to see what your raw teak will look like when you coat it, just spray it lightly with a little water. That will tell you if you need bleach. Probably not…

BTW, I always remove the teak from my boat. I have never successfully touched up my teak with Cetol while it’s installed without hitting the fiberglass. Double work!

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 04/13/2022 12:36:04

GaryB
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Response Posted - 04/13/2022 : 15:30:08

Thanks Larry and Bruce. I appreciate the quick responses.

My teak is mostly raw wood at this time. The Cetol that was on it has mostly flaked off so I guess I'll be doing the full restore.

Any suggestions on how to protect the open holes once the teak is removed? I know we're not supposed to use silicone but I was thinking I might put a little dab in each hole then tape over the holes with duct tape or possibly use a thin strip of plastic and tape it down. Thought on the silicon is I may be able to pick it out of the holes or if I left it it might protect the holes from rotting if water ever infiltrates after I reinstall the teak. Of course I'll be using butyl tape at each hole location when reinstalling. Just a thought.

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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 04/13/2022 : 15:47:55

Two things I wanted to mention/clarify but forgot to in my above post:
I mentioned that after teak oil deteriorates that it has to be bleached before re-applying teak oil. Maybe the term “bleach” is confusing or incorrect. But what I meant is that a teak oil cleaner and brightener or combo of the two may be necessary.

The other thing is how to protect the adjacent Fiberglas areas for exterior teak not removed from the boat and is finished with Cetol or teak oil, in place. First of all, the finishing best done when the wind is calm to minimize staining the Fiberglas. Second, I always use masking tape on the fiberglass adjacent to areas I am finishing. Third, I will pour a small amount of the finishing liquid into a square plastic open container (Home Depot sells them), this provides a wide base minimizing tipping over the liquid. Fourth, when applying Cetol or teak oil, I will generally use a 1” wide brush and only use a wider one for the hatch boards but I finish those boards off the boat on the finger slip. Also, when dipping the brush, ensure you remove the excess liquid by rubbing along side of the container - This will definitely minimize splatter.

Even doing all the above, some splatter may occur but will be minimized. Recommend inspect each section completed, around the general area, remove any splatters right away.

I use to protect areas with masking tape and light baggy plastic but first it is an overkill and may cause more trouble in that you do not always notice splatters on the plastic and then your arm gets on it or just removing it, the splatters then get on the boat - I would skip trying to completely cover all fiberglas surfaces - masking tape works fine.
Also, I only removed the grab rails to recondition the wood but these days, using teak oil and my covers, I only have to re-apply teak oil. That’s why I indicated in above posting the masking tape is the only real work effort alongside adjacent to teak wood and for the grab rails...alongside and underneath the grab areas.

Oh, I just saw your new posting - How to protect the grab rail holes. To tell you the truth, I forgot! I probable used a weatherproof tape or heavy duty duct tape. Masking tape is not necessarily waterproof and may lose it’s ability to stay adhered. Then what does remain gets gummy and a bit hard to remove. I also went with Butyl tape upon final install.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 04/13/2022 15:54:53

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2022 : 16:00:32

I often put a dab of Life Caulk in holes when I'm temporarily removing things--no tape required. Generally it's easy to push out from inside for re-installing. Silicone or polyurethane caulk might not be so easy, but I wouldn't count on it to prevent later water intrusion in the wood core--that's a job for unthickened epoxy after widening the hole and then re-drilling the epoxy after it's cured.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/13/2022 16:03:15

glivs
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Response Posted - 04/14/2022 : 04:11:46

I agree with Dave but an 8’ x 10’ tarp would serve you well. Just tie it down so the cringles don’t scratch the portlights in the wind.

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

Voyager
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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2022 : 16:10:14

I have a box of SS bolts so I put the bolts into the holes and tighten them down, then put some tape over the top. My winter tarp is still on the boat so for me it’s not a major risk.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT

GaryB
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Response Posted - 04/16/2022 : 10:04:38

Great suggestions gentlemen! I may use all of them just to be sure.

BTW... where's the best place to get butyl tape?

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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Voyager
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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2022 : 06:19:27

Reporting back on the PPG Cetol performance.
I’ve done 2 coats so far and here are my impressions.

I stripped the teak using a cabinet scraper, pull scraper and sandpaper. Dusted off the wood using a cloth rag and a little paint thinner. Opened the can and stirred it. Has a distinct yellow brown color, identical to the original color. I compared the color with an interior piece that never saw direct sunlight. The formulation has the look of a deck stain or translucent stain.

It goes on wet, so watch for drips. Don’t overload the brush and work in sections. Once the piece is covered, use a dry brush to even out the stain across wide areas and eliminate brush strokes. You can also use a narrow roller if you prefer.

First coat dried and much of it soaked into the wood, so the grain was noticeable. I looked for drips on the underside and removed them with a sharp knife.

Second coat went on much more smoothly. Seemed to fill the grain a lot better. Still very translucent with a golden tone. I’ll give it two days then lightly sand with 220 or lighter grit sandpaper to remove any defects. Then it’s time for the third and final coat.

I’ll let you know how it looks but so far, the color is right and the texture seems a little thicker than the original Sikkens.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 04/18/2022 06:24:01

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