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 Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums
 Catalina 25 Specific Forum
 Lifting Points Locations
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mheds5116
Deckhand

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USA
10 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/28/2022 :  19:49:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greetings, Can anyone direct me to where I might find the lifting point locations for hoist straps on a 1982 Cat 25 Std Rig?

Last fall during haul out, I asked if the boat could be hoisted, checked and then set on it's trailer. It sounded like a possibility but the question of where the straps are to be positioned came up so we kicked the can down the road and I paid to have them haul it out on the trailer. I guess larger boats have the locations marked but we didn't see any on the Cat25.

I'd like to pay the marina to lift the boat and then have the swing keel checked this Spring. In lieu of getting the strap info, another option is to get in the water with a light & snorkel and check it myself? Inland lake sailing in the Midwest so I'd have to wait until June at least...Stay safe. Thanks,
Mark


Two Pisces
1982 C-25 SR/SK #2740
Lake Pepin

Roamer
Deckhand

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USA
21 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2022 :  04:54:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
check https://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/tech/tech25/tt011.asp

fadeaway: 1984 TR/FK Trad
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mheds5116
Deckhand

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USA
10 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2022 :  17:39:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Perfect. Thanks so much. I'll have to remember to check tech tips for more nuggets in the future!


Two Pisces
1982 C-25 SR/SK #2740
Lake Pepin
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Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
464 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2022 :  02:34:54  Show Profile  Visit Lee Panza's Homepage  Reply with Quote

I'd be very reluctant to use that info for a swinger.

That diagram is for the fixed keel and the wing keel models. The cable for the swinger enters the hull pretty far aft. Look at this diagram from the owners' manual, and notice how far aft the swing keel extends in the up position:





Compare that with the diagram of the lifting points. Extend the aft strap line down and it hits the ground just a few inches aft of the fixed keel. Look again at the owners' manual diagram and estimate that same few inches aft of the fixed keel, and then place a straight-edge vertically up to a few inches aft of where the coaming meets the cabin. You'll see that this imaginary line crosses the swing keel about midway up its bottom surface (which is inclined aft with the keel up).

Now, look at this detail of the swing keel, and notice where the cable enters the hull. It appears to me that it's just a bit farther aft than the imaginary line I described above. Understandably, the keel should be down when hoisting the boat out, so the lifting strap would be awfully close to - or even right at - the point at which the cable enters the hull.





What I've just described is an approximation method, but this is just too close to take a chance on the yard's workers' imprecise placement of that strap. If the cable has some tension in it, the strap might just slide up and not create a kink in the cable. But I wouldn't rely on that, and you really don't want to kink the cable (that would substantially weaken it).

I'd suggest you show these diagrams to the yard workers, and explain that they might be able to detect that cable when placing the strap - if they're careful and they know what to feel for. In any case, I'd have them expect to place the strap a good 4 inches or so farther aft than the lifting diagram indicates. That's not enough to have a major effect on the balance (your outboard motor would have a much greater effect, and shifting the strap aft would beneficially offset that to some extent).

I hope this is clear enough, and I hope it helps.


The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)
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Volksaholic
1st Mate

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40 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2022 :  07:00:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This still doesn't help for the swing keel, but here's a slightly more legible and complete copy of the image linked above. When I printed the link from this forum the A and B dimensions were muddy but this one I can read:
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/manbro/pictures/5-1.gif

Paul
1981 Catalina 25 TR/FK
Soon to be named either Fiddler's Dream or Fool's Errand depending on what it takes to get her into shape
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JoeRobertJr
1st Mate

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25 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2022 :  07:33:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In preparation for lifting my 1984 swing keel to the trailer for the first time ever last fall, I took a picture for reference while she was still on the trailer. I had to ensure the straps would not only miss the swing keel, but also not get trapped between the hull and trailer bunks. Just before the lift, I marked the lift points with painters tape.




Joe Robert
C-25 SK/SR #4287
Orefield, PA
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5748 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2022 :  07:53:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The two strongest, most reinforced places on the bottom of the boat are a few inches forward of the swing keel and a few inches aft of it when raised, because those areas have to support the entire weight of the keel. That's where I'd put the straps. I think the placement shown in Joe's photo is adequate, but I think most of the boat's total weight is centered in the keel, and placing the straps too far towards the ends of the boat leaves too much in the center unsupported. I'd hoist it with the keel raised and the straps a few inches forward and aft of the keel.

That would place the forward strap slightly forward of the mast and the aft strap approximately at the winches.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 04/05/2022 07:58:37
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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4232 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2022 :  20:35:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with Steve.

If the guys are good they can slide the straps under the boat and tighten them to where they barely drag on the bottom. Then adjust until they hit the retracted keel front and back then back off a few inches and lift away.

The forward strap should end up between the bulkheads in the cabin.


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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX
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mheds5116
Deckhand

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USA
10 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2022 :  17:56:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Point taken & thanks to all of you for the advice. I'm not sure of the process but here's what I envisioned could happen.

1. Launch the boat off the trailer (keel up).
2. Position boat in the hoist area (it's right next to the boat launch)
3. Place hoist straps & tighten.
4. Board the boat, lower the swing keel.
5. Un-board, de-board, de-plane the boat.
6. Check straps, final prep for lifting.
7. Hoist the boat high enough so the swing keel is out of the water.
8. Inspect the keel, cable, connections, etc.
9. Lower the boat back into the water.
10. Remove the straps.
11. Motor over to the slip.

Depending on who I hire to do the "inspection"/"survey" is it reasonable to assume I'd get some reassurance that a catastrophic failure isn't imminent?
Maybe the whole thing is un-necessary, hire someone to do the inspection while the boat's in the water?
If you've had to do keel work on your boat, how was it handled?
Thanks,
Mark


Two Pisces
1982 C-25 SR/SK #2740
Lake Pepin
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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4232 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2022 :  09:55:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Couple of thoughts:

Run the straps under the boat while on the trailer and have them lift it so you can inspect the cable and attachment to the keel. No need to launch and then lift.

If you have bunks instead of rollers on your trailer have them lift one end of the boat slightly, slide 2" X 4" X 4'
boards under the boat and on top of the bunks (to make space for the straps) then lower and repeat at the other end of the boat. They can then slide the straps under the boat in the correct lifting locations and lift the boat up for the inspection. Again, no need to launch.

How clear is the water? If clear, use a diving mask and make several trips under the boat to inspect the cable and attachment OR hire a local diver to do the inspection using SCUBA gear.

Just my .02 worth. You get what you pay for. LOL


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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX
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delling3
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2022 :  11:52:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Keep in mind too that the straps need to clear the knotlog impeller. The thru-hull transducer location can vary considerably. You should probably verify the transducer location before having the boat hauled out.

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mheds5116
Deckhand

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USA
10 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2022 :  19:00:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great advice as usual. Thanks. Water is murky so would need a light too if I was checking the keel while it's in the water. Figured a rechargeable light, double-wrapped in ziplock bags could work?

I had the impeller installed when I bought the boat so it's a yearly remove it, put in the dummy plug before she gets pulled out on the trailer, re-install it once the boat's in the water the next season. Good catch though, thanks for the heads up.

I'll talk with the marina soon and see what they'd charge me to just lift the boat, put in 4x4 so I can check the keel while it's still on the trailer & then lift it to remove the lumber before splashing this Spring. That didn't occur to me so thanks again. I'm guessing that would be much cheaper than pulling the whole boat out using the hoist.


Two Pisces
1982 C-25 SR/SK #2740
Lake Pepin
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blanik
Navigator

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Canada
210 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2022 :  13:23:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here it is:

[url=https://postimg.cc/hfKt3fQk][/url]

1984 C25 FK/SR #4593
Lake Champlain


Edited by - blanik on 04/28/2022 13:24:17
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