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Outboard motor: Tohatsu 9.8HP recommendations

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Volksaholic
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Initially Posted - 11/06/2021 : 10:27:44

I've been shopping for an outboard for my new-to-me '81 C25 TR/FK and came across a 2019 Tohatsu 3V2 (MFS9.8A3) 9.8HP long shaft. Does anyone have any experience with this motor? I'll probably look at it today or tomorrow and bring it home unless people tell me to run away. From what I can tell so far, it's manual start which is not ideal but it would get the job done. The seller says it's a 22" shaft. I'm not well versed in outboard motors so I don't know where they measure shaft length. I also haven't been able to determine so far whether I'd be able to charge my battery with it, which might be a deal breaker if I can't. The seller says they were using it on a Zodiac so I don't know if they would have been carrying a battery.

Someone else has a Mercury 10HP (or 9.9HP?) long shaft but it's out of state and he's in yet another state so we haven't been able to make connections to look at it. I know Mercury and would lean that way, and I know the Tohatsu name but don't really know anything about their products.

Thanks, Paul

Paul
1981 Catalina 25 TR/FK
Soon to be named either Fiddler's Dream or Fool's Errand depending on what it takes to get her into shape

Lee Panza
Captain

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Response Posted - 11/06/2021 : 13:21:18

I've had two Tohatsu motors (I accidentally overheated one, so until I get around to rebuilding it I'm on my second one). I strongly endorse them.

Tohatsu actually manufactures small displacement Merc's and Nissans, who mainly just rebrand them. The Merc you're thinking about was probably built by Tohatsu.

You can get a lot of info on current models from Online Outboards (the best place to buy new motors; they even give a discount for membership in the Cat. 25 Assn.):

https://onlineoutboards.com/collections/tohatsu-9-9-hp-outboards

You can compare the asking price for the one you're looking at to the price for a brand new one.

Ask the prospective seller for the letters following the A3 in the model designation; that'll give you more information about its configuration (including whether it's manual+electric starting).

The 22" shaft is OK, but the extra-long shaft (25") gives an advantage when the water's choppy. For just getting out of the harbor, and back in before conditions seriously deteriorate, a 22" would probably be OK.

As for the starting: both of my Tohatsus start very easily (I have electric on both, but they have a built-in manual pull-cord as well). Although I've used the pull-cord, just to see that it works, I personally would not want a manual-only model. Here are a couple of reasons why. First, it would be difficult to get a good pull with the motor in the fully-down position (with the bracket I use for lowering and raising my motor); thus, I'd have to start it with the water intake ports out of the water, and then quickly lower it. Much more importantly, however, is that I want it to start - or restart - immediately in an emergency. I've been in situations where it would be problematic to have to raise the motor, pull start it, and then lower it again.

That second reason can be very important - and a very real concern. In addition to situations occurring out there, I've had troubles with the idle jet clogging from bad gas (this is a common problem with these motors). More than once I've found it wouldn't idle, and that makes it "interesting" to get the boat back into its slip under challenging conditions.

You'll have to decide what's important to you the way you'll use the motor, but you might want to give it more thought before jumping on what's currently available (although that Tohatsu could be a good deal for someone - if it's priced appropriately).

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

Edited by - Lee Panza on 11/06/2021 13:22:26

islander
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Response Posted - 11/06/2021 : 14:19:05

The 9.8 Tohatsu came in 3 transom lengths. 15,20 and 25. There wasn't a 22. The alt. Circuit to charge your battery is 80w 6amp and came standard with the electric start but was an option on the pull start. You can get by with a 20" but it's way better to have the 25". As said above the electric start and the charge circuit would be mandatory for me.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

keats
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Response Posted - 11/07/2021 : 04:31:04

Agree with the comments above that you should have no reservations about the quality of Tohatsu outboards. They have been making them for so long they really have it down. I bought one new from Defender Marine a little less than two years ago and have had no issues though I'm only at about 70 hrs.

The one you are looking at probably has EFI. Find out of its a 25" not 20".

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 11/07/2021 : 06:17:33

To measure the outboard motor shaft length, measure from the bottom of the mounting bracket where it rests on the transom or motor mount to the top of the cavitation plate. This is the horizontal surface of the lower unit immediately above the propeller.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

bigelowp
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Response Posted - 11/07/2021 : 07:20:10

I have had a Tohatsu 9.8 for 14 years and it is a great engine. BUT you should get a 25 inch model rather than a 20 inch -- you will really appreciate it if/when the wind pipes up or you are passed by a powerboat leaving a large wake behind.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2021 : 08:51:16

A "long" shaft (stated as 20" transom height) is generally 22" from clamp to plate as described above. An "extra-long" (25" transom height) is generally about 27.5". Thus, on the maximum specified transom (or bracket) height above the waterline, the anti-ventilation plate is at least 2" below the surface. I replaced a long with an extra long on my C-25--a significant improvement for motoring on Long Island Sound.

Another note: Tohatsu now offers a 9.9 hp model that is fuel-injected instead of carbureted. It is also substantially heavier, but should avoid the not-too-rare clogging of the tiny carburetor jets in small 4-stroke outboards.

Something else that helps is a separate fuel filter/water separator (like a Racor). After an incident with my Honda 8, I added one to my C-25.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/08/2021 07:31:51

Volksaholic
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Response Posted - 11/07/2021 : 10:12:29

Thanks for all the input. By the time I got done with my "chores" and got back with her yesterday it had sold. From your description of measuring shaft length (which will be good to know going forward) it sounds like it really was the shorter of the long shaft models. The way she described the measurement it sounded like she knew what she was talking about. I'm pretty sure it was pull-start only... at least that's what I'm going to tell myself so I'm a little less bummed about missing out on it. :) I'm in Utah and the Great Salt Lake is too low to support a 4' draft so I don't really need the motor until the freshwater thaws next spring. My budget dictates that I get something second hand so I want to have my ducks in a row to jump when the next one comes up without buying something that's going to be a hassle or, worse, is unreliable in an emergency.

Thanks again, Paul

Paul
1981 Catalina 25 TR/FK
Soon to be named either Fiddler's Dream or Fool's Errand depending on what it takes to get her into shape

GaryB
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Response Posted - 11/07/2021 : 23:35:13

Being on a lake, if it doesn�t normally get really rough you may be able to get by with the 20� shaft. All depends on the type and height of the waves generated on the Great Salt Lake.

Someone on a bay or along the coast where the waves have a long fetch and can get big would definitely want the XL shaft. Choppy waves with a short period are really problematic for our boats and require the XL shaft.

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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Leon Sisson
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Response Posted - 11/08/2021 : 07:56:18

Paul,

Just adding my vote to the other responses above. Although I'm not familiar with Tohatsu engines, I have no reason to doubt they're good. On my Catalina 25, I've used both a rope start Honda long shaft (20") and two electric start Yamaha extra long shafts (25").

I would definitely spend the extra time and money for electric start for the reasons Lee Panza mentioned, plus making it easier (i.e. possible) for a less experienced and athletic crew to start the engine if needed. All electric start models come with a charging system as standard equipment. With rope start versions (even of the same basic engine) charging might be an extra cost option.

I don't know about other brands, but my late model Yamaha 9.9 hp sailboat outboard has a cooling system flushing port which allows rinsing saltwater out of the engine with a garden hose after use. Salt corrosion has been the death of every sailboat outboard I've had to replace so far, so I'm rather pleased to see this feature.

As Lee, Scott, Peter, and GaryB said, these boats really need the extra long shaft. I found the 20" shaft on the Honda wasn't long enough to keep the prop from aerating (sucking air) if I went fwd while in gear, to mess with a headsail or anchor for instance. In steep waves, the problem is even worse.

I've run into the clogged idle jet problem on every small 4-stroke outboard I've owned (maybe half a dozen), and on lawnmowers. In my opinion/experience, the clogged carb jet problem results from gas left in the float bowl slowly evaporating, leaving behind residue, usually a pale yellow mineral deposit (sulfur maybe?). Water in the float bowl is of course never a good thing either.

After trying several ways to prevent crud in the carb, here's what seems to work for me (coastal tropics).

A small Racor-type fuel filter with transparent water trap:

.
Combined with a fuel shut-off valve:

After docking, I shut off the fuel valve, then run the engine until it sucks the float bowl empty (or at least until the lowest jet is no longer submerged, which is the goal). Putting the engine in gear and giving at a bit of throttle while doing this speeds up the process considerably. I also think it helps to close the choke right as the engine starts to stumble and miss, which pulls a bit more gas out of the carb.

Before installing the filter and valve above, I also tried disconnecting the fuel hose to run the carb dry, along with smaller fuel filters similar to this:

They didn't stop all of the water, even when I installed two in series. There's a lot of humidity here. A boat kept in a drier climate might have less trouble with condensation accumulating in the bottom of the fuel tank. Keeping the tank full helps reduce condensation, but increases the likelihood a whole load of fuel will go stale before a sailboat gets around to burning it. When a portable tank of fuel gets to smelling less than fresh, I dump it into my car's tank.

Leaving the fuel line connected, rather than using it as as shut-off, seems to have reduced problems with the quick connector leaking, falling off, etc.

� Leon Sisson

glivs
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Response Posted - 11/08/2021 : 16:27:19

Where in the line did you place the shutoff valve Leon?

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

Leon Sisson
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Response Posted - 11/08/2021 : 17:31:39

Re: Where in the line did you place the shutoff valve Leon?

Just before the primer bulb and fuel filter. This location limits the amount of fuel which can escape while servicing either item. (I also have an anti-siphon loop or hump in the line between the tank and valve, although that doesn't guarantee it won't try.)

If you mean where is all this stuff physically located in my Catalina 25, that's a bit more complicated. Some years ago, I subdivided the uselessly huge port cockpit sail locker, including installing a 12 gallon internal fuel tank just fwd of the locker hatch. The shut-off, primer bulb, and filter are located in the aft port corner near the cranking battery, which is mounted where the fuel tank shelf was originally.

The volume of fuel "downstream" from the shut-off doesn't seem to significantly affect the amount of time needed to run the carb dry, probably because the engine's fuel pump can't pull enough vacuum to draw more fuel from the filter once the supply is blocked. However, I've seen the squeeze bulb collapsed like a prune from the pump trying.

If one is determined to keep wasted time and fuel to a minimum, I don't see any disadvantage to having two shut-offs, one close to the tank, and another closer to the engine. I have a 4 hp Yamaha 4-stroke outboard which came stock with a fuel valve on the motor, between the quick disconnect and the fuel pump.

As an aside, after installing a fuel shut-off on my lawnmower (same clogged jet problem), I now need to add a primer bulb to eliminate waiting for the the float bowl to refill while cranking.

� Leon Sisson

glivs
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Response Posted - 11/09/2021 : 17:39:58

Thanks Leon.

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

cat25
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Response Posted - 11/12/2021 : 05:47:20

I am interested in knowing where you purchased the fuel shutoff valve, thanks.

Ken
Chenango~
1990~TR~WK~C25~#6022
Candlewood Lake, Ct

Leon Sisson
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Response Posted - 11/12/2021 : 16:56:22

Re: "I am interested in knowing where you purchased the fuel shutoff valve, thanks."

Amazon, "Inline Fuel Valve," $14. Similar ones are a lot less expensive on eBay. Search for "1/4 inch inline fuel shutoff valve" (or whatever size your fuel line is).

I installed one of the cheap black & red plastic valves on my lawn mower a few months ago. It was included with a new carb I ordered, as was an inline fuel filter. I took the implication to be, "we know you're buying a new carb because your old one has clogged jets. So do us both a favor, and install this free fuel valve and filter so you won't be claiming the carb was defective in a few months because of stale, dirty gas."

So far, so good.

� Leon Sisson

bigelowp
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Response Posted - 11/14/2021 : 06:40:39

Just curious -- After each use I run my Tohatsu 9.8 engine with fuel line off until it shuts off because of no fuel left in carb. I would think the fuel shut of would be unnecessary on an outboard -- unless fuel injected engines operate differently. Do like the thought of a fuel filter, although quality of fuel has not, to date, been an issue for me.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

JB
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Response Posted - 11/14/2021 : 07:02:27

Modern gas tanks are designed to prevent venting into the atmosphere, which can lead pressure build up in the tank. If the carburetor can't hold that pressure fuel can leak and flood the engine. If you remove the hose between uses, you might get a shot of fuel when you reconnect to the motor. There's relief valve on modern hoses to prevent too much pressure. Something to be aware of if you mix new tanks and old hoses without the relief valve.

1988 C25 Wing Keel Std Rig Tohatsu 9.9 Tiller Steering and 2003 C250 Wing Keel Std Rig Inboard Diesel Wheel Steering

Volksaholic
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Response Posted - 11/24/2021 : 14:35:01

Great information, especially the extensive write up with included logic by Leon. I know some people prefer a short "Here's what you do" but I really appreciate the "here's why you do it" so I can see how it aligns with other knowledge and experience. I can really relate to the lawnmower/snowblower (interesting you don't have the same problem with your snowblower ;) ) jets getting buggered up from stale gas. I transfer the gas between the two from season to season and run them dry, but since I use a push mower 98% of the time and the mower typically about 3x per season the gas would still go stale if I topped off the tank. In a typical year I'll run the snowblower tank from full to empty at least a couple times.

I'm still keeping an eye out for the correct motor. The Tohatsu that prompted the original question popped back up at a $500 higher price... which is probably still fair... but it's manual start only and the seller doesn't think it's got the bits to charge the battery. I've still got plenty of work to do on the boat before spring so it's not urgent but I want to make sure I keep my eye on the ads and do my research in advance so I don't miss the right deal if it comes up. If push comes to shove I might settle on a less-than-ideal motor next spring knowing I'll want to replace it or crowbar open my bank account and buy the right one from a dealer.

If the Great Salt Lake were an option, the 20" long shaft sounds like it would be abysmal. The size of the lake means there's a lot of fetch for waves to build, especially if the wind comes from the NW (the main marina is in the SW corner). It's so shallow that the waves frequency is short so I think there's more time that the prop will be out of the water than when surfing longer waves. I might be full of crap... most of my experience is on the GSL so I don't know how our freshwater reservoirs will be and I don't know how it compares to coastal sailing. If going forward is enough to cause cavitation, though, I don't want to screw around with the 20" shaft if I don't have to.

Paul
'81 Catalina 25 FK/TR
Tentatively named Fiddler's Dream

Paul
1981 Catalina 25 TR/FK
Soon to be named either Fiddler's Dream or Fool's Errand depending on what it takes to get her into shape

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2021 : 15:04:51

Also, on GSL, the boat will float a little higher, and the prop a little shallower--maybe only 3/4" or so, but...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Volksaholic
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 11/25/2021 : 09:48:00

Sadly, with the current lake levels any additional buoyancy would be insufficient for a 4' draft. :( It makes me sad that the GSL is not an option and may never be again. I have a lot of years and fond memories of sailing out there, and it really is a resource like few others. A wilderness of water, more or less.

pd

Paul
1981 Catalina 25 TR/FK
Soon to be named either Fiddler's Dream or Fool's Errand depending on what it takes to get her into shape

Voyager
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Response Posted - 11/26/2021 : 17:36:22

So is the Great Salt Lake going the way of the Salton Sea? I reckon its fresh water tributaries are being tapped for drinking water and irrigation, and thus the lake itself is in the process of shrinking? Of course the recent decrease of rainwater isn�t helping either.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Voyager
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Response Posted - 11/26/2021 : 17:39:47

I checked with Defender on a Tohatsu 9.8 with XL shaft, electric start and carburetor. Price was approximately $2650 plus tax plus shipping. Is anybody seeing a better price sans tax out there (I�m in Connecticut)?

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

glivs
Admiral

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Response Posted - 11/26/2021 : 20:07:54

Bruce, I visited two local dealers. One approached me as you might imagine of a high pressure dealer, the other began the conversation asking what I wanted and saying they wanted to offer their service rather than compete with on-line pricing. They sold me my outboard at $5 above the on-line price with no shipping costs and tank tested. It has been a great relationship since. Just saying, if you have the time, it might be worth looking around, especially inland a bit from any major harbor.
Good luck.

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

Voyager
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Response Posted - 11/27/2021 : 05:42:46

Gerry, that is a good suggestion, I�d prefer a personal touch on an outboard. Now I know that New Hampshire has a lot of inland boating and they also have 0.00% sales tax ($168 savings). I wonder whether there�s such a dealer a little north of Boston or in the Nashua area? I could drive there and back in a day�

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2021 : 10:38:37

Bruce: Defender should be less than an hour from you, and they have good folks working in the boats and motors section. I'd just check on available stock before going--I know outboards have been tough to get this past year. Sales tax... can't help you there, but what's the overall cost per mile to drive your vehicle?

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/28/2021 : 08:49:09

Just about every place I looked has the Tohatsu 9.8 25" Sailpro #MFS9.8BEFUL on back order. Even Defender. Many say to leave a deposit and they will get back to you Lol. I guess they are all on a boat off of California. Might be a long time before one becomes available and I would guess the price will be what it will be.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 11/28/2021 09:04:28

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