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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Trailer tire rating

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Volksaholic
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Initially Posted - 09/29/2021 : 14:58:24

It's my first time posting so please be gentle if I missed some forum protocol or etiquette! I just picked up an '81 C25 TR/FK on a 2 axle trailer with typical trailer tires; great tread that is rotting so bad you can almost watch it progress. They're 225/75R15, Load Range D on 5 bolt wheels. Somewhere I saw a recommendation that a FK C25 should be carried on Load Range E but the only tire topic I found on this forum suggested a Load Range D tire.
https://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=31640

I'm a noob when it comes to determining weight rating for a trailer load this size but it seems like it would be prudent to have a little excess capacity per tire in case you lose one. I also know from driving high profile vehicles that sidewall stiffness makes a big difference in handling with crosswinds. Is Load Range D sufficient, or should I be shopping for a Load Range E? I don't want to waste money, but I also don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish and end up craning my new baby out of a ditch.

I just noticed on eTrailer that for my wheel bolt pattern they don't list a Load Range E in a tire/wheel combo. Does that answer the question?

I also noticed that eTrailer has both Radial and Bias Ply tires in this size. Frankly I didn't know bias ply was still a thing, but it looks like the Load Range D BP tires are rated for a higher load than the radials for a little less money. Do any of you run bias ply on your boat trailers? Which handle better, especially with regard to crosswinds or rough roads?

Thanks in advance for any experience and wisdom you can share.
Paul, SLC UT

Paul
1981 Catalina 25 TR/FK
Soon to be named either Fiddler's Dream or Fool's Errand depending on what it takes to get her into shape

bjoye
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Response Posted - 09/30/2021 : 13:29:51

I'll add my $.02s worth. I've just finished rebuilding my trailer, including new disc brakes, electric over hydraulic, new axles, new springs, and new tires. The weight of the Cat 25 has been reported anywhere from ~ 4500 lbs to over ~ 7500 lbs with motor and equipment, plus trailer. I've measured my own at ~6500 lbs. In general, a Cat 25 is a heavy boat and will max out a 7000 lbs rated trailer. In my case, I went with Goodyear Endurance ST215/75R14 D which has a load rating of 2200 lbs per tire. I also upgraded my axles to 3750 lbs for a total of 7500 lbs, with appropriate sized springs.

In general, 15 inch rims are better than 14 inch, Radial over Bias Ply, 6 bolts over 5. I don't think you will find any load rated E trailer tires in these sizes. Pay the extra to get a good tire. But remember, the tires are just one part which will determine the overall trailer rating. The axle rating (3500 lbs vs 6000 lbs), springs, and rail sizes (5" vs 6") all determine over all rating.

Here are some references to previous articles:

https://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=22168&SearchTerms=road+king
https://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=6925&SearchTerms=3500,axle
https://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=4911&SearchTerms=trailer,stern,tie,down

"Frayed Knot" 1989 C-25 WK/SR #5878

Edited by - bjoye on 09/30/2021 13:31:14

Volksaholic
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Response Posted - 09/30/2021 : 16:41:04

Thanks for that info and the links to the trailer articles. I still need to give the trailer a closer inspection. Obviously buying used I don't know what the history is for the trailer and I was unable to find any sticker or stamped info on the tongue or frame. It may have been painted over. I was guesstimating I was probably at about 6K to 6.5K lbs based on other information I've picked up online, but it would be good to weigh it so I know for sure. When I get the wheels off to swap the tires I intend to inspect the brakes and trailer brake actuator (don't know the proper name offhand... just a dumb inertia actuated hitch). I'll see if I can make any determination of the axle or spring rating at that time. I don't imagine the springs will say, but the axles may have a stamp or sticker that I can uncover. I appreciate the "2 cents" worth; if you just rebuilt your trailer I'm sure you've done some research and have good information. I, on the other hand, just rebuilt and old Finn trailer for my Laser. Not really in the same class! :)

Paul, SLC UT

Paul
1981 Catalina 25 TR/FK
Soon to be named either Fiddler's Dream or Fool's Errand depending on what it takes to get her into shape

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2021 : 16:56:26

In my experience I�ve found that when trailering a boat, especially a heavy one, it�s good to have good tires, strong trailer frame good brakes, etc. But to me the primary mechanical defect in most cases is the nut behind the wheel.
Speed is a primary concern. In a lot of wide open spaces people think that you can do 65 mph, 70 mph, 75 mph. How about 50 mph running with your flashers on? This gives you better reaction time and the ability to stop both the tow vehicle and the trailer if an emergency emerges.
Don�t drive erratically, let the other drivers know your intentions, use your signals and look out for the other guy.
A 25ft long 7ft wide boat is probably the largest practical load most consumer vehicles should tow.
Good luck

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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1889 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2021 : 21:51:05

Paul,

Let me start with a qualifier that I don't claim to be an expert on trailers.

However, I've done more repairs on them than I care to think about, including replacing the entire undercarriage and brake system

under my Catalina 25 trailer, similar to what bjoye described above.

If you're unsure of the rated capacity of your used trailer, and it's not practical to check with the original manufacturer, then I suggest measuring the main load bearing parts as best you can (spindles, axles, bolt pattern, springs & bolts, frame rails & cross members, tongue, hitch ball, etc.). Then compare your dimensions with parts of known capacity on websites such as Champion Trailers.

Don't be too surprised if the weight range comparison results turn out to be ambiguous. As boat trailers age and accumulate repairs by previous owners, they can become a mixture of load ratings, depending upon what was available and affordable. I've built 'Frankenstein' boat trailers from graveyard pieces parts.

For tires, of course get "ST" trailer tires, not truck or car tires. On tall heavy trailers, I have a slight preference for bias ply for sidewall stiffness. Tandem axles also reduce sway, similar to the effect of dual rear wheels on a truck.

Re: "...just a dumb inertia actuated hitch"

Sounds like you might be describing a hydraulic surge brake actuator coupler.

Re: "I don't imagine the springs will say" [their load capacity]

Measure the length, width, count the leaves, and note the end attachment type. That should narrow down the weight range possibilities.

I wholeheartedly agree with Bruce's advice about driving conservatively while towing. I check lug torque and tire pressures before leaving home, and hub temperatures after 1 mile and 5 miles. At fuel stops check tire temperatures and pressures. (And thump your rear duals with a tire iron for good luck.

)

� Leon Sisson

Volksaholic
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Response Posted - 10/04/2021 : 11:47:01

Thanks all for the replies. I was able to discern a little more information about the trailer. I was able to read some stickers through the paint someone had applied with a roller; trailer was built by Trail Rite out of Santa Ana specifically for the Catalina 25 FK, and as best I can tell it's a 1980 so it was probably original to the boat (1981). I think they're out of business as I can't seem to track them down, but maybe they're doing business under another name. It's nice to know it was built for the boat, but it's also been sailed at the Great Salt Lake since at least 1993 through 2015 (as best I can tell) The salt has done a number on some of the tube structures on the trailer but everywhere that the salt can get rinsed off looks to be in great shape. I know I have to replace the bow support tube as well as a horizontal tube it attaches to. The horizontal tube was originally 3"x3"x3/16" steel, and I know I could break most of it out with my bare hands. That doesn't surprise me. I don't claim to know the engineering behind trailer design, but I replaced rotting tubular side rails on my Finn trailer when I was about 19y.o. with channel because it's not only hard to flush that salt out of tubes but I don't know how well the interior of a tube can be protected. Exposed steel can be painted/powder coated and easily hosed off after launching or retrieving the boat. The other places that salt water has been trapped that are causes for concern is where the subframe for the axles (don't know the proper term) contacts the side rails, and I'm sure the leaf springs can't carry the load they were designed for due to corrosion. After crawling around and inspecting it I'm of the opinion that I can get away with replacing the bow support and swiss-cheese tube that holds it now and then tear into the undercarriage after I float the boat next spring. The 3"x3" tube will get replaced with 2 1.5"x3" C channel pieces; I figure that will give me at least as much steel as the tube but I'll leave a gap between the wide faces so I can flush and inspect things. Not that I expect the Great Salt Lake to support anything with a 4' draft in the near future... this will probably be a freshwater boat from here forward. :( The plank under the keel also needs replacement so I'm going to figure out the best way to raise the boat enough to pull that out while I"m refinishing the bottom. With that plank out of the way I can support the keel on smaller blocks so I can grind and fair the bottom and bottom edges.

The trailer says it's rated for 7000 lbs GVWR. As I mentioned, I suspect time and erosion have eroded that capacity somewhat but I feel pretty good about its overall condition. I'll replace the leaf springs when I have the boat off, or when I'm inspecting the brakes/hubs/drums if I see something like a cracked leaf or other damage that I didn't see from the backside. The axles could use a grinding and inspection too, and given the fact that they're tubular it makes me wonder if any salt water could have gotten inside. So far I don't see any openings that would have allow incursion and I don't see the telltale puckering that would lead me to believe they're rusting from the inside out. I'm considering following Bjoye's suggestion and scrapping the axles in favor of some known, higher rated ones when I can more easily work on the trailer. I'd love to strip and paint or powder coat the entire trailer when the boat's off it too, we'll see what that costs and at what point I'm better off selling the old trailer and buying a new one. :)

I definitely don't trust the condition of the hydraulic surge brake actuator (thanks, Leon, for interpreting for me! :) ) and I think I'm going to have to replace it outright. More initial $$$. :) Maybe when I get into the coupler I'll decide it's serviceable but I have no idea whether seals and other rebuild parts are available for those things and I don't want to take a chance on brakes either failing to engage or locking up. From what I've seen so far I'm assuming the actuator is junk and I suspect the rest of the system will need to be almost 100% replaced.

I ended up getting some Chinese Load Range E tires that are 1 year old off FB Marketplace. I'm hoping those aren't false economy, but I'm going to order a couple more rims and keep a couple of the existing tires as spares until I get past this initial cash outlay to get everything ready for spring. The boat needs new halyards and some of the other running rigging, and I want to upgrade the running lights. I need to buy or build a new tiller as the original is delaminating. It needs a new battery. If the tires last me for a season or two I figure they're a good way to defray some costs so I can put the money into the boat, and I'm hoping the fact that they're a higher load rating (supposedly 2833 lbs) than what I think the load calls for that they won't turn into what I'm seeing referred to as "China bomb" tires before they're replaced. With luck I can get a slip within a few hours' drive from home so the trailer shouldn't see many miles next summer. At some point we're considering moving to the Pacific NW and I don't think I'd trust my bargain tires or the current leaf springs to make that drive.

I agree with the safety suggestions for trailering. While I admittedly don't have experience towing anything this heavy I have quite a bit of experience towing and launching small boats and towing up to about 2K lbs utility trailers. I certainly don't have to get this boat anywhere that would require doing over 55 mph. I like Leon's suggestion of checking the bearing, wheel, and tire temperatures; I do that with my other trailers every time we stop for fuel or ice or ???. Tire pressure affect both rolling resistance and temperature, and people often ignore it. Another thing I see people do that scares me is when they load up their toy haulers and utility trailers with no apparent regard for how the trailer is balanced. I'm sure it would take a hell of a lot of stuff in the boat to shift the balance to make this C25 load tongue light or heavy, but given the fact that I cheaped on the tires and don't fully trust the suspension the heavy stuff will go into the tow vehicle.

Thanks again for your input,
Paul in SLC UT
Nervous owner of a 1981 C25 TR/FK
- I hope I'm not in over my head!

Paul
1981 Catalina 25 TR/FK
Soon to be named either Fiddler's Dream or Fool's Errand depending on what it takes to get her into shape

Erik Cornelison
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194 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2022 : 16:04:17

New trailer tire available, 12 ply in 15".
Hercules H-901 12 ply.

Erik

Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234

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