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mulvaneym7
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/28/2021 : 13:54:49

Hi All- I can't believe it's starting to feel like the time when we're back in the water! Haulin for me is April 17. I'm very new- I just bought the boat last year from a guy who already had it in the water. I'm in a boat club and some guys helped me drop the mast last year for winter storage. It's a communal group. But now I'm a little nervous about how to double-check to make sure it's safely back together when the mast goes back up in a little bbit. Again, I think I'll get help getting it back up but I want to make sure I know it's connected right. But like when it dropped last year, one of the guys noticed that there were no rings in the Clevis pins connecting the shrouds and said that was an issue. Are there any other general tips you can give for a newby putting up the mast again to make sure that it's safely attached? Like what the key safety things in your checklist when you put the mast back up? I realize it's a basic question but would still appreciate any perspective. Thanks so much in advance!

john.adlam
Deckhand

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USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2021 : 18:41:05

Not dumb questions at all. We all start somewhere and stepping the mast was the biggest concern I had when I picked up my C25. Recruit a few helpers if at all possible.You should also definitely get some lock rings for your clevises. Catalina Direct sells them. The other general advise I can give is to go slow, and check, then recheck every stay and all of your lifting rigging. Have someone to help when a stay inevitably gets fouled on something. Watch the turnbuckles for the upper stays for binding while the mast is going up, they like to do that sometimes. again.. take it slow and easy. if something doesn't seem right, lower it and regroup. Good luck!

John Adlam
1981 C25 "Valley Girl" #2500 SR/WK
1982 C25 "No Stress Express" #3218 SR/SK

Boise, Idaho

Edited by - john.adlam on 02/28/2021 18:45:51

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2021 : 21:44:07

Well before the mast goes up, take a look at the cotter pins or rings on the mast-head cleavis pins too, and the condition of the plastic sheaves--they tend to deteriorate in the sun. If you have the original rope-to-wire halyards, replacing them and the sheaves for all-rope halyards is an almost universal upgrade on these boats. (See Catalina Direct.)

And watch for any parted wires at the terminals on the stays and shrouds--the most likely place for corrosion is inside the swages, causing breaks right there. I see you're in the Finger Lake region--or maybe you sail on L. Ontario, so in fresh water. We don't see anything about your boat, like the vintage. (Think about setting up a signature in your profile, like John's above.) But if your standing rigging is original, it's over the hill and should be on your list for replacement. CD again is a good source.

Keep the questions coming--everybody here has been a newbie!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/28/2021 21:49:03

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2021 : 23:49:42

The number one piece of advice, is........ make sure it doesn't fall back down.

.........

That means of course, securing clevis pins and turnbuckles with cotter pins or rings.

One other item, that I think folks tend to do without, is a Loos Gauge. A pricey tool that you will probably only use once or twice a year. However, takes a lot of the guess work out of adjusting the rig.

I still carry one on the boat to this day, even though lowering and raising the mast on my current boat is not really an option.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2021 : 07:28:57

Think about it logically. The mast will not fall if the mast base is bolted to the tabernacle and if the mast is supported in all four directions, i.e. the forestay, backstay and both upper shrouds. If those four attachments are all secure when you raise the mast, then you can attach all four lower stays after the mast is erect.

Most people attach a line to their jib halyard, and use it to raise the mast. After the mast is erect, then they connect the forestay and disconnect the halyard. After that's done, the mast is safe, and they can attach the four lower stays and snug them down.

Whenever a mast stay has been disconnected, and you're re-attaching it, always unscrew the turnbuckle completely, and then thread it on at both ends at the same time. If you don't, you might not be able to adjust it correctly. You'll lose some of it's range of adjustability.

Many people use split rings to secure the turnbuckles, but I don't trust them. I've seen a few lying on the deck after they fell out. I prefer cotter pins. Most people only take the mast down once a year, so the convenience of the split rings isn't a big issue. I keep a half dozen spare cotter pins on the boat.

When you lower the mast, you only have to disconnect the forestay and the forward lowers, and slightly loosen the upper shrouds. You don't need to loosen the aft lowers.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2021 : 08:03:18

The guys from your boat club that helped you take down the mast, did anybody count how many turns they loosened the turnbuckles?

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2021 : 15:21:00

quote:
Originally posted by islander

...did anybody count how many turns they loosened the turnbuckles?

For future reference (too late now), another approach is to put a little piece of tape around the threads against the outsides of the turnbuckle body before you loosen it.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/01/2021 15:31:16

mulvaneym7
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2021 : 21:31:55

Thanks so much! Really appreciate all the helpful advice. I am in fresh water- Canandaigua Lake.

Ordered some cotter pins as a first initial step.

I saw the advice about the Loos Gauge but I think I have a bigger question about that- which is how to know how much to tighten up the turnbuckles on the sides. This is the first time I heard about the counting but will keep that in mind for next year. Somebody told me you could lie down and look straight up the mast to determine how much to tighten on the sides? You just want it straight up and down, right?

There's a tiny part of me that's worried about the connection where the forestay connects to the top of the mast. It's looking a little shaky. Not sure of the name- but the tie thing that goes through the top loop of the forestay is not looking good. Not quite sure how to replace that one though.

Not sure if the rigging is original or not- I'm looking for signs of fraying on that one, right?

Again, much thanks to everyone for their helpful replies. Feeling better already.

mulvaneym7
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2021 : 22:49:29

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2021 : 07:26:36

Tuning the rig isn't nearly as complex as it might seem.

First, the mast should be erect from side-to-side. Adjust your jib halyard so that it just touches the forward lower chainplate on one side of the boat. Then touch the chainplate on the other side. If the distance isn't the same, adjust the turnbuckles for the upper shrouds to make the distance equal. Then adjust the slack out of both shrouds. Don't worry about how much tension to use yet.

Next, the mast should be nearly erect fore-and-aft. I use a carpenter's bubble level to get it erect. Adjust the turnbuckles on the forestay and backstay to just take the slack out of them. The mast should lean aft about 2-4" at the top. Check the carpenter's level. If the mast is erect or leaning forward, then loosen the forestay turnbuckle and snug up the backstay turnbuckle. At this point it isn't important that the mast's lean be exactly correct. An approximation will do. You'll refine it later.

Next, adjust the four lower stays to just take the slack out of them.

At this point the mast should be erect laterally, it should be raked approximately the correct amount fore-and-aft, and it should be straight (not bowed or bent in any direction. You can check that by lying on your back and sighting up the mast kerf.) The next step is to begin adjusting all the cables to the correct amount of tension, without disturbing the previous adjustments.

I usually start by tightening the two forward lowers each by two turns. Then tighten the two aft lowers each by two turns. Then sight up the mast, looking for any bending or bowing. If a bend is developing, you'll have to loosen one stay slightly and tighten the opposite stay by an equal number of turns. Repeat this process until the lowers are tensioned approximately correctly. Then tension the two uppers alternately, by equal numbers of turns, until the uppers are tensioned approximately correctly.

To determine the approximate correct amount of tension, you simply need to be aware that the cables should not be bar tight. Over-tensioning them puts unnecessary stress on the chainplates and attachment points, as well as the boat's structure itself. Nor should they be so loose that there is noticeable slack. You don't want the rig to be loose enough to snap back and forth in choppy seas. If the cables deflect about 1" when you pull with about 50 lbs pressure, that will be pretty close to correct.

Finally, you need to fine tune the rig. To do that, sail the boat closehauled in about 10-12 kts of wind. Your goal is to check on three things, First, sight up the mast to see if the mast is still straight when it's under load. If not, make any needed adjustments. Next, look at the stays. The windward stays should all be taut. The leeward stays should not be slack, but you should be able to see that they are just relaxed. Finally, You want to feel the helm. In that wind and on a closehauled heading, the pressure on the tiller should be light, but, when you let it go, the boat should head up into the wind. If the pressure on the tiller is too heavy, tilt the rig forward very slightly to ease the pressure. With these adjustments, the boat will perform well in most conditions.

If you follow these procedures, you won't need a Loos gauge. Why? Because there is no one perfect amount of tension for adjusting your cables. A loosely adjusted rig powers up the rig and is much better in light air. A tighter rig depowers it and is better in strong winds. Adjusting the rig just right for the wind conditions is more of an art than a science. I've seen skilled, serious racers re-adjust their cable tensions on the way to the starting line. You'll only learn, from experience and practice, exactly how much to tighten or loosen the rig for the conditions on any given day.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2021 : 08:02:10

From the Tech tips.
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/tech/tech25/snkmast.asp

From the manual.
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/manbro/om88-3.asp

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

mulvaneym7
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2021 : 08:46:51

These two links are perfect- exactly what I was looking for. Thank you!

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2021 : 19:27:55

If you�re using a bubble level if the boat is on the hard, make sure your boat is level on the jackstands. Invariably my yard crew sets up my boat leaning a little to starboard or a little to port. My bow is usually higher than the stern to allow water to drain. So, be sure to factor that into your setup.
If you�re doing it on the water, be sure the weight is evenly distributed side-to-side and fore-and-aft.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2021 : 05:33:14

It's best to wait until the boat is in the water, where it will settle on it's lines, to tune the rig. Nobody else should be on the boat. A person at the bow or stern will tilt the boat too much, but your weight at the base of the mast won't disturb the boat's balance enough to matter. When you're using a carpenter's level, you aren't trying to get an exact measurement. You're just trying to get the mast rake "in the ballpark." You'll make the final adjustment after you sail the boat and adjust the weather helm based on the feel of the tiller.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

mulvaneym7
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2021 : 08:33:50

Thanks so much!

cat25
Navigator

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USA
140 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2021 : 05:38:29

you can use your jib halyard to center your mast from port to starboard. take the halyard to touch the stanchion bottom. then do the same to port. adjustment on the halyard length my have to be done to get the mast straight center of the boat. works well happy sails

Ken
Chenango~
1990~TR~WK~C25~#6022
Candlewood Lake, Ct

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