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 25 cockpit size? Capacity?
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Solarsail45
Deckhand

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Initially Posted - 11/25/2020 :  13:20:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm looking at getting a sailboat for lazy sailing, family fun, and after this #$%#$% covid crap is done, small cocktail gatherings. It needs to have a cabin that my wife can comfortably nap in. She is 6 feet tall.

Looking at drawings and my ruler, it seems the cockpit on the 25 is about 6' 4" long? Is that right?

I figure 6 adults can fit in comfortably at anchor, but would 8 work?

I like the larger cockpit of the 250, but unless I can find a project 250 it is outside my current budget.

Thanks!

-Jeff

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/25/2020 :  17:19:48  Show Profile  Visit OLarryR's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I do not know the length of the cockpit, I would have to measure it. You can seat at least 3 on each side. For motoring around, it’s fine, however, considering there needs to be room to swing the tiller and to work the jib/Genoa sheets for tacking and trimming the sail, the cockpit is a bit crowded for 6, much better for 4. I have sailed with 5 and that is doable. I have also sailed with 4 adults and 2 kids (ages 2 & 3 1/2) and that was also okay - Kids spent some of the time exploring the cabin. I am sure there are those that do sail with more onboard but it gets a bit cramped when allowing for tiller movement and working the lines. While boat capacity is usually not an issue on sailboats, that is because there is generally limited space to seat passengers, versus, say an open motorboat that can seat quite a number of passengers and then be a safety issue exceeding capacity.i

So, based on your posting regarding anchoring (or at the dock or motoring around) the cockpit can seat 6 fine.....8 is pushing it.....and for me, I would never have 8 onboard, it just doesn’t seem the safe thing to do even if one or two sat on the cabin top - that’s at least my opinion.

Edited by - OLarryR on 11/25/2020 22:04:47
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Lee Panza
Captain

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428 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2020 :  22:45:56  Show Profile  Visit Lee Panza's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The benches in the cockpit on my 1980 model are just over 72" long, measured at the rear (the measurement at the front edge is longer due to the convex rounded transom. The cabin bulkhead slants forward, providing a little more elbow room for the forward-most passengers.


The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)
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Lee Panza
Captain

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Response Posted - 11/25/2020 :  23:08:34  Show Profile  Visit Lee Panza's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Jeff, I'd caution against trying to fit too many people onboard, especially all in the cockpit at once. That's a lot of weight, and the Cat 25 is a light boat, so it will cause the boat to settle significantly. I don't know how much it might drop, but the outlet for the manual bilge pump is generally not very high on the transom. If it dips below the water surface you might start taking water, and as you do the boat settles even deeper and the problem accelerates. Look at this picture (not my boat, and I don't know where I collected this one from):



The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)
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Solarsail45
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Response Posted - 11/26/2020 :  06:37:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks everyone! That really helps.
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 11/26/2020 :  06:45:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Once, when I was young and foolish, I sailed my C25 in light air with 13 adults aboard. That much weight will submerge the outlet for the bilge pump, but it won't allow water inside the boat. A hose is attached to that outlet which leads to the bilge pump, which is situated well above the boat's waterline. Moreover, bilge pumps have a check valve which prevents water from flowing backwards through the pump.

The real hazard of carrying too much weight on a boat is that it can upset the boat's center of gravity and capsize it. A C25 FK has 1900 lbs ballast to prevent it from capsizing. If you load it with more than 1900 lbs and allow the passengers to gather on one side, they'll change the center of gravity enough to capsize the boat. There have been reported incidents in which severely overloaded ferry boats capsized after the passengers on the top deck all moved to one side of the boat.

Even though I was dumb enough to allow that many people on the boat, I at least had the good sense to distribute them evenly around the decks, so they didn't upset the boat's equilibrium.

Boats really aren't designed to accommodate large numbers of passengers. Too many people in the cockpit prevent the crew from tacking and trimming the sails. They get in each others' way. Even on very big racing boats, the general rule is that the only people who should be in the cockpit are people who are actively working there. Otherwise, people should be sitting on the rail, or somewhere else where their weight will help.

Think more in terms of entertaining large crowds in your home and small groups on your boat.

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("Fahrvergnügen")
Past Commodore
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glivs
Admiral

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USA
759 Posts

Response Posted - 11/28/2020 :  21:13:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jeff...you got lots of good feedback about cockpit capacity...and note that sitting on a mooring is one thing but actually sailing is something else. You should also consider that on a 25' boat privacy is inversely related to the number of people on board, particularly if the head is required.

As for your query re the cabin....as a reference, I'm 6'1", my daughter is 5'11" and there are some here on the forum that are much taller. Newer boats have more headroom than older models because the sole was redesigned but unless the pop-top is up, you still quickly learn to stoop. The biggest issue is getting into and out of the head. The head has less headroom than the cabin and the cross track on which the original divider between the two areas slides is a head banger. Some have opted to remove the track and use a curtain in place of the divider but again its a decision with regard privacy.

As for napping or overnighting, keep in mind there are different cabin layouts. The traditional layout has settee benches on port and starboard. Either are likely suitable for napping but so narrow as to be not great for overnight accommodation. It is relatively easy to extend the width of the port settee, however, to use a cushion from the starboard settee or a special made cushion and still leave easy access forward to the head. If extended in width, the port settee is long and wide enough to be very comfortable (for one adult). Alternatively, some bridge the two settees to make essentially a queen-size bed at the cost of a bit more difficulty in moving forward to access the head and storing the required kit. This also is the approach for the dinette layout.

Of course, the quarter-berth has plenty of room (for one adult) but access can be a little bit of a challenge, depending on your flexibility. Some use the V-berth for sleeping. My grand-daughters love it, but if you're tall it just would not be fun.

These are great boats but be realistic in your expectations. Hopefully this helps in your search. Good luck.

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/29/2020 :  08:56:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Surprisingly a Catalina 30, which can be had at very good prices, has a cockpit that’s not much larger than a C25. A friend has a Catalina 309 that sports a much more ample cockpit. You might look around for one of these.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 11/29/2020 08:57:40
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Solarsail45
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Response Posted - 02/21/2021 :  18:20:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Following upon this, I ended up with a Pearson 26 One Design with a 8' 11" long cockpit. We will see how it works out!
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 02/22/2021 :  16:53:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nice! Pearsons are wonderful boats. The cockpit sounds very ample for multiple crew members, however that might come at the expense of a smaller cabin. The photo and stats at sailboatdata give the impression that the additional 1ft LOA may help in ameliorating this, because for all intents and purposes, the boat looks surprisingly similar to a C25.
Good luck to you and your family and friends aboard your new to you boat. Hopefully the dreaded plague will be finished by then.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
8612 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2021 :  10:32:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That Pearson has a lot of cockpit... For other than sitting at anchor (as you mentioned), the inboard rudder post and tiller will affect the comfortable capacity under way. You'll figure it out.

Enjoy!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-USCG-OUPV
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.
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Solarsail45
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Response Posted - 02/24/2021 :  08:58:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm actually turning it into a solar powered cruiser, so will be removing mast, rigging, rudder and keel. I'll be replacing the keel with a shallow steel keel. That will keep the tiller out of the cockpit.
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 02/24/2021 :  10:09:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How will the boat be steered without a rudder?

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("Fahrvergnügen")
Past Commodore
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Solarsail45
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 02/24/2021 :  10:23:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tiller on outboard motor. Initially gas, but will move to electric as funds allow. The boat has a very good motor well so an outboard tiller is easy to reach with a bit of an extension.
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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 02/24/2021 :  14:35:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hmm . . . .I question if an outboard engine, electric or gas, will replace a true rudder. Or if an outboard rudder such as on the C-25 will work well on a boat that was not designed for it. Should be an interesting adventure for you.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
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Solarsail45
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 02/25/2021 :  05:35:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I admit I've bitten off quite the project.

The smallest electric trolling motor I'm looking at has 130 lbs of thrust. I figure 130 lbs of force at a right angle to the stern has to be enough torque to turn a boat this size with no sails.

I will keep the rudder hole as it is in case I am wrong.
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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 02/25/2021 :  06:56:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sad to see a Pearson 26 OD turned into a power boat! Now a McGregor 26M - no problem watching one of those being converted, starts off half way there.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN
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oldengineer1949
1st Mate

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USA
75 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2021 :  07:29:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jeff,

be careful choosing a trolling motor for your Pearson project. I went through several motor control failures with a Minn Kota, and ended up adding my own heat sinks to keep it from frying. Minn Kota Tech Support admitted that their trolling motors were not designed to act as a prime mover (75-100% throttle all the time). You may need to upscale a bit and look at Torqeedo-level electric outboard motors (as opposed to just trolling motors).

Regards,

Al and Bernadette, "Pualani Nui", '82 C25 SR/SK, homeport MCB Quantico
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Solarsail45
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 02/25/2021 :  07:41:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
@dmpilc I can understand that. I will be selling all the sailing parts so that other Pearson 26's can live longer.

@oldengineer1949 The Minn Kota's are *wildly* overpriced for what they are. I'm looking at the Haswing brushless trolling motors which have been used as prime movers and are much larger at a much better price. If that doesn't work I will look at the epropulsion motors which compete against Torqueedo, but are much more reasonably priced.
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
8612 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2021 :  16:24:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Some "naval architecture" considerations: The 2,200 lb. keel is about 40% of the total weight of that boat, and the mast and rig are also not insignificant, as you'll find when you remove them. Without these things, (1) the boat will sit much higher in the water, probably bow up even before people are added to the cockpit; and (2) its stability against things like people, waves, and wind will be considerably reduced. This could also affect the ability of a small outboard to turn the boat toward the wind. You'll likely find that you need to add some ballast in the hull for safety as well as comfort.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-USCG-OUPV
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/25/2021 16:27:55
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Solarsail45
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 02/26/2021 :  04:58:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yup. I fully expect to need to replace most of the weight. I plan to use the boot stripe to gauge trim and the roll period test to gauge stability.
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5512 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2021 :  10:14:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No real suggestions here. Just food for thought. If the engine fails on a sailboat, you can sail to your destination. If you remove the rig, you only have one remaining means of propulsion. In case your motor or batteries fail, you need an alternative. Two choices are (1) carry a small, lightweight gas outboard in a cockpit locker. (2) get towing insurance if it's available in your boating venue. If you have to call for a tow without insurance, it's really expensive. Twenty years ago, it cost me $850. when I was hard aground.

A friend replaced the inboard gas engine in his antique, wood 30' Cheoy Lee with an inboard electric motor. He loves it and uses it for in and out of the marina and local motoring. When he cruises distances, he uses a 10 hp gas outboard.

There's no law or rule that says you have to go exclusively with either gas or electric power. Like my friend, you can keep both available and use whichever best serves your needs for the trip you are planning.

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("Fahrvergnügen")
Past Commodore
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Solarsail45
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 03/01/2021 :  08:09:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Absolutely. I expect I will always have at least two independent motors. I figure I will also have at least a small gas outboard on the boat, even if it is stored away. I'll be starting with a gas outboard for money reasons.
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 03/01/2021 :  19:49:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just happened upon this article on electric outboards that you might find useful. Here's the link. https://designedconscious.com/plastics-in-the-ocean/sustainability-news-stories/a-the-beginners-guide-to-electric-outboard-motors/

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("Fahrvergnügen")
Past Commodore
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Ramona82
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2021 :  08:23:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm fairly new to sailing and sailboats, so excuse my naivety, but wouldn't it have been easier and more cost-effective to have bought a powerboat? Or were you specifically looking at building something unique that has the classic sailboat look?

John Potetz
1982 C-25 SR/SK #3363
Ramona
San Diego, CA
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Sailynn
Navigator

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USA
177 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2021 :  00:56:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It is your boat and can do anything you want. By changing engineers and builders specification you may be changing the boats certification status. So when the US Coast Guard has to come to rescue you, you may get cited for skippering "a inherently unsafe vessel" as my friend who is a retired US Coast Guard Safety Officer would say. It might be wise to check with Catalina Yachts Engineering Dept. and a Regional US Coast Guard Safety Officer.

Lynn Buchanan
1988 C25 SR/WK #5777
Sailynn
Nevada City, CA
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