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 Sail hauling issue with new halyards
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exf4gib
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/28/2019 :  08:30:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've recently installed Samson polyester shell/Dyneema core halyards on my C-25. Hauling up both the mainsail and jib seems more difficult than expected when raising sails from the cockpit. Having a crew assist at the mast by "sweating” (?) the halyard resolves the issue. Both main and jib halyards are run aft to the cockpit via turning blocks and deck organizers. The sheaves at the masthead (two for main, two for jib) are new anodized aluminum ones installed a year ago. Main is a new Ullman sail, with four full battens. The jib is a much older, hanked-on style. I plan on using my drone to check the masthead area first but thought others might have some thoughts on this. One observation I've noted is that these halyards, when lightly-pressed, I noticed the core felt "flat". I wonder if there might be some resistance with a "tensioned” flat-core halyard over a conventional sheave.

Arnie W.
85 C-25 TR/FK #4747 "Lifted"

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5207 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2019 :  09:01:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you have to sweat the halyards to raise the sails in moderate winds, something is wrong. Sometimes you have to sweat the halyard or use a winch in stronger winds, to tension them correctly.

What size line are you using for your halyards? 3/8" is usually recommended, because it's more than strong enough, and it runs freely through sheaves and blocks. Oversized line rubs inside blocks, causing friction. If your lines are led aft to the cockpit, look at each turning block. I have one that frequently turns sideways and the line binds. Examine each point where the line turns, including the sheaves at the masthead. Is there any way that the line can slip off the sheave? There should be a plate at the masthead that prevents that from happening. I have heard of boats where that plate was missing, perhaps lost while the mast was down.

You have to trace the line through every turn to find the source of friction or binding, but it should be fairly obvious when you find it.

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("Fahrvergnügen")
Past Commodore
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
8057 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2019 :  16:09:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The halyard kit I bought from Catalina Direct had 5/16" halyards and masthead sheaves for that diameter. I see their C-25 halyards are still 5/16". If the sheaves are from them, 3/8" might bind in them. Since your problem is with both halyards, I'm suspicious of that kind of mismatch. If sweating at the mast is required, that pretty much narrows it down to the mast-head. It seems somebody reported here that the diameters of their masthead sheaves were not large enough to make the halyards clear the outside edge of the collar of the casting that sits on the top of the mast. CD's sheaves for internal halyards, for example, would probably cause that problem with an external rig. Just a wild-hare thought...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-OUPV
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.
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exf4gib
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2019 :  10:24:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Dave. When installing the new halyards, I checked them on the (then) new sheaves. The halyards appeared to fit well onto the sheaves. The resistance I'm experiencing with hauling sails is "intermittant". That is, the resistance isn't consistent, but only about half the time while hauling sails. I'm suspicious of the core material of the halyards, in that they tend to feel somewhat flat instead of round. Have to wonder if that may contribute to this issue. I'm going to take a close look this weekend with my drone to see if I can get a good closeup. Note the halyards run free when not shackled to sails.

Arnie W.
85 C-25 TR/FK #4747 "Lifted"
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dasreboot
Admiral

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754 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2019 :  10:36:18  Show Profile  Visit dasreboot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
dirty groove on the mast? sail slides catching on some damage somewhere? I put heavier slides at my batten pockets because of breakage. they catch on my mast gate all the time. do you still have the resistance when pulling the halyard from the mast on a windless day? I dont think the core flattening would do anything like you describe. If it only happens on windy days, then it really sounds like the slides binding up somewhere.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
8057 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2019 :  14:55:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And please forgive what is likely a demeaning question, but are you head-to-wind with sheets released as you hoist?

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-OUPV
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.
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exf4gib
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2019 :  15:13:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
All good points, but slide groove was cleaned and "Maclubed" beforehand. New Ullman mainsail. But like the vintage standard jib, both sails, when hauled, experienced only intermittent resistance. Only thing in common are the (new) halyards, Samson 11mm double-braid poly w/ Dyneema core. Very "finicky" line, which tends to tangle easily.

Arnie W.
85 C-25 TR/FK #4747 "Lifted"
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exf4gib
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2019 :  15:14:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good point, but this was with nearly dead-calm air, in the slip.

Arnie W.
85 C-25 TR/FK #4747 "Lifted"
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
8057 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2019 :  15:34:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
On Samson’s site, they say their dyneema cores are plaited (braided), not linear strands like some other cores. Seems like the cross-section should be round and fairly firm, unless yours has the wrong size core or has been de-cored.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-OUPV
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.
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Frank Law
Navigator

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USA
158 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2019 :  10:23:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can you take the halyard off the sail and substitute a weight of some kind and then try raising the weight . And pulling the line at the mast ,eliminating the sail and blocks'
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