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Kper
Captain

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USA
404 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/13/2017 :  09:33:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
She wants a bigger boat so the decision is inevitable. How many here who have sold their boats we're so reluctant that you drug your feet before advertising? I didn't think it would be this hard.

Just making small talk to ease my pain.
And, no, I'm not saying this here as a pre-advertisement.

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...

TCurran
Admiral

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USA
540 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2017 :  09:45:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
She wants a bigger boat? The "For Sale" sign would have been up before she finished the sentence.

Tom Curran
1981 Capri #101 currently named "Debbie June"
1985 Watkins 25 "Comfortably Numb"
PAFB, FL

Edited by - TCurran on 08/13/2017 09:45:59
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WesAllen
Navigator

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USA
199 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2017 :  12:44:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I really like mine C25 but under those conditions I'm with Tom.

Wesley Allen
"Breaking Wind"
1982 C-25 SR/TR/SK #2773
Hemlock, MI
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2883 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2017 :  13:20:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If my Marina costs weren't tied to the boat size then....yep.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1361 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2017 :  14:55:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
[quote]She wants a bigger boat so the decision is inevitable[l/quote]
But........why do you, I mean she..... want a bigger boat?


Davy J

(Former photos in this area, as well as all my forum additions held ransom by Photobucket)

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay
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Kper
Captain

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USA
404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2017 :  16:57:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Too funny.
Ya, I'm in agreement with her but I've invested so much time in the C25 that it feels like family. And it truly was her decision. No, seriously, lol. Besides, she's looking in the $75k+ department!

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
7427 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2017 :  19:44:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm just gonna say... The bigger the boat, the less like sailing it is--starting at the level of let's say a Sunfish or Laser, which to me is the purest, most fun sailing there is! At some point, and I feel like it's somewhere above a C-25, it's more like motoring under sail, except for the heeling part.

But that's not to say there aren't attractions to a bigger boat... One perhaps is it's less like sailing! Another is that at this size category, every 3' you add to the length makes the boat virtually twice as big. It will have nearly twice the displacement, considerably more beam, and the headroom and overall roominess you feel below is huge. But the same goes for handling, responsiveness and ease of sail handing and maneuvering around a dock. And to an extent, the same goes for handling rough seas, although to a lesser extent. A C-25 can push through pretty much the same conditions a C-28 can, although the displacement and the inboard engine make things feel a little more comfortable.

And then there's the inboard... A 25-footer is about as big as you want to go with an outboard with a sailboat. An inboard gives you better handling in a seaway, more "upscale" appearance in the marina, and some new issues for maintenance--including some additional holes in the boat.

Everything's a compromise... And it's all good!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
7427 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2017 :  19:45:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kper

...Besides, she's looking in the $75k+ department!

Nah! Not unless she insists on one from the factory.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/13/2017 19:46:14
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3740 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2017 :  19:56:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hmmm. A friend has a C-36 and it was something like $100k bare in 2004, with maybe $40k in improvements

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain Stratford & Milford, CT
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Kper
Captain

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USA
404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2017 :  21:59:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

quote:
Originally posted by Kper

...Besides, she's looking in the $75k+ department!

Nah! Not unless she insists on one from the factory.



At the moment she's eyeballing a Celestial 48 - $150k! Keep in mind we retire in a couple years and her plans are to live aboard starting in the Great Lakes and eventually making it southeast. We've already sold the large house and have since fixed up a cracker box that should be easy to flip for the transition.

I'm looking forward to it but all this is actually her dream. Honestly, I'm pretty nervous about it.

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
7427 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 :  06:17:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well that's a whole different story! Happy shopping! It's a buyers' market for big boats these days. (...and get a Sunfish so you can go sailing!)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.
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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1361 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 :  06:39:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
At the moment she's eyeballing a Celestial 48 - $150k!


That's why I asked why you......um, I mean why she, wants a bigger boat.

In my opinion, with the exception of an inboard, you won't really get the amenities until about 34'.

Also, as I've recently found, if you plan to liveaboard, get a slip as soon as you can. Every liveaboard Marina here in the greater Tampa Bay Area is full and has a waiting list of six months to a year and a half.





Davy J

(Former photos in this area, as well as all my forum additions held ransom by Photobucket)

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
4889 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 :  07:16:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When you plan to live aboard, your first concern is liveability, - not so much sailability. I live on my 35' boat half the year, and it's comfortable for one person. The big problem in living aboard is storage - not just storing provisions, but storing clean clothes and shoes and hats and foulies, etc. Moreover, with two people in a smaller boat, you'll be constantly ooching past each other in narrow passageways.

If you plan to cruise long distances, a 40' boat will ride smoother in rougher seas that a smaller boat. A boat with a fractional rig will be much easier to sail shorthanded than a masthead rig. The fractional rig boat is primarily driven by it's mainsail, which is more or less self-tending. When you tack, you can lock the traveler in the center, tack the boat, and then adjust the trim of the mainsail afterward. Jibs are usually not self-tending. You have to release the working sheet and tail in the lazy sheet when you tack. The jib on a fractional rig is much smaller than on a masthead rig, and much easier to tack, because the loads on a fractional rig jib are less and it is less likely to snag on the rigging when you tack. You'll also want an autopilot, refrigeration, and, if you live long-term in a marina, air conditioning.

I sail a lot - on average 3-4 days a week during the summer, but rarely on my liveaboard boat. I bought a 25' boat that I race regularly and I crew on other peoples' boats. Racing isn't only about competition. It's very social as well. You meet other people, and work and play together, both on the boat and off.

In short, look for a boat with adequate living space and that is easy to sail.

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("Fahrvergnügen")
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 08/14/2017 07:19:33
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Kper
Captain

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USA
404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 :  08:06:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you, everyone, for all the advice. We have been following several folks on social media and sail with a friend on occasion on his 42' on the lakes. We admit we need classes and additional experience but we're hoping to get that on the lakes before we feel confident enough to head to salt water.

I have been tormented whether to keep the 25 and store it for later if we were to ever give up the full-time dream but, she has indicated many times that anything longer than a day out on the 25 and she feels cramped. This past weekend I built a storable kit to turn the dinette into a queen bed and although it made overnight comfortable it made the interior even tighter. Tighter = Bad, Bigger = Good. It's inevitable for me. I just wish I could get her under $50k but she has things she likes and, well, that cost money. Surely you all know the drill.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against a bigger boat but I know for a fact I will miss the 25, especially after all the hard, expensive work is now done.

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2883 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 :  11:20:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Living on a boat, Even a large boat is a huge jump from a comfortable house. The dream can be very far from reality. If it is at all possible, Keep the house and try living on the boat for a week or two then increase the time into longer stays. You may find out That the dream is just that, A dream. Most liveaboards in my area never sail the boat. It's become more and more a home over the years and is just way to much of a pita to stow everything, Unhook water and electric etc. Instead they rely on friends to get their sailing fix. Also check on Marina policy on liveaboards. Mine doesn't allow them. You can liveaboard if you show proof of another residence.Remember that even a large boat is smaller that a Tiny House.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
368 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 :  11:47:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello Again,

I bought my boat with the intention of eventually living on her. She is my retirement home. I have an advantage of sorts in the area of living in small spaces having been an over the road truck driver for many years. Small spaces shouldn't bother you after living in a truck for weeks at at time. My little C25 actually has about 3 times the living space than my truck did, though a bit less head room. But yes, by all means go live on your boat for a few days at a time. Then a couple of weeks at a time and so on. be sure that life is for you and that you can make all of the necessary adjustments in your life style. I have and recommend a book for you. The Essentials of Living Aboard A Boat.
Written by Mark Nichols. A highly recommended first step, even before buying the new boat. Best of luck.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.
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Kper
Captain

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USA
404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 :  12:19:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you for the advice, I will never turn that down! We have a small plan in place... We have a 5th wheel that we lived in all last summer while remodeling our new cracker box. I know, it's bigger than an equivalent boat and you just don't sit next to your boat with a coffee and a camp fire (coffee maybe). The 5th wheel isn't going anywhere and will be used when we aren't boating. To keep it in the family, we will be purchasing my parent's home upon retirement. We will have that for our place of residence once we can no longer walk decks, climb into a 5th wheel, safely navigate the highway or just plain get tired of enjoying life (eyeroll with the last one). We have been a military family for the last 33 years so new environments and adjusting on the fly is nothing new to us. The freedom to go where and when we want for once in our lives is calling loud and clear. My wife has sacrificed so much over my career that I will do whatever I can to pay back all the support she has given me. Besides, through perseverance and sacrifice she has managed to finish college despite 2 kids and the military dragging us everywhere. She acquired her professional dreams and is now the bread winner so who am I to tell her no? lol. We're not rich by any means because of our late start but we also want to live life before we physically can't anymore and are working to find a way to make that happen.

Thanks again for all the input.

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...
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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2360 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 :  12:31:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
At our lake anything bigger than 30' is simply stupid. I have seen few boats deliver the sailing experience in a better package than a C 25. The maintenance is all doable by the owner, the sails are affordable, etc. Can you afford the incidentals of a bigger boat and will you accept losing control of every aspect of your boat?

Frank Hopper
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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1361 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 :  12:42:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Living on a boat, Even a large boat is a huge jump from a comfortable house. The dream can be very far from reality. If it is at all possible


It is possible but requires incredible persistence......
I am half way there. Read that again, I am only half way there.

Here's the story, it has taken thirteen years to get to where I am now. In 2004, purchased a C25 to learn to sail and determine if this is really the path.....

Sailed her for ten years, spent as many as two weeks at a time on board, sailing up and down the Gulf coast of Florida. Decided to go all in. Purchased Gemini 105Mc three and a half years ago and then sold C25. Put the house on the market, a waterfront house with dock, took almost 18 months to sell.

Discovered I still have to much stuff..... rented a waterfront house with a dock to park Gemini. Sold and got rid of a ton of things. Now end of lease...... two problems, 1) still have a lot of items I don't know what to do with. They are now in storage. 2) as mentioned earlier, there isn't any liveaboard slips available as of right now.

Here's the half way part: currently spending weekdays in my travel trailer at a RV resort and weekends on the boat. Once we can get the storage unit cleaned out and cut a few more loose ends we might be able to move aboard full time. Could take as much as two more years..............




Davy J

(Former photos in this area, as well as all my forum additions held ransom by Photobucket)

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay
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Kper
Captain

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USA
404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 :  13:09:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pastmember

....Can you afford the incidentals of a bigger boat and will you accept losing control of every aspect of your boat?



Frank, we are still learning and I know we are giving up many of the DIY jobs that were such a draw when we purchase the C25. That will certainly be a player that determines what it is we end up with. I can tell you this much... if we continue to sail this lake we won't be sailing at all in 5 years. To move on we must move up. We're all different with different dreams and aspirations, for sure.

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...
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Kper
Captain

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USA
404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 :  13:13:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Davy J

quote:
Living on a boat, Even a large boat is a huge jump from a comfortable house. The dream can be very far from reality. If it is at all possible


It is possible but requires incredible persistence......
I am half way there. Read that again, I am only half way there.

Here's the story, it has taken thirteen years to get to where I am now. In 2004, purchased a C25 to learn to sail and determine if this is really the path.....

Sailed her for ten years, spent as many as two weeks at a time on board, sailing up and down the Gulf coast of Florida. Decided to go all in. Purchased Gemini 105Mc three and a half years ago and then sold C25. Put the house on the market, a waterfront house with dock, took almost 18 months to sell.

Discovered I still have to much stuff..... rented a waterfront house with a dock to park Gemini. Sold and got rid of a ton of things. Now end of lease...... two problems, 1) still have a lot of items I don't know what to do with. They are now in storage. 2) as mentioned earlier, there isn't any liveaboard slips available as of right now.

Here's the half way part: currently spending weekdays in my travel trailer at a RV resort and weekends on the boat. Once we can get the storage unit cleaned out and cut a few more loose ends we might be able to move aboard full time. Could take as much as two more years..............







Davy, we feel your pain. We have sold or given away 80% of what we owned. When we sell this place it will be completely furnished with everything we need in our 5th wheel and possibly some small items with kids and family. It was incredibly hard at first but we have found we live happier with less crap... I mean stuff. We've discovered all the stuff we thought was making us happy was actually preventing us from living.

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
4889 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 :  14:41:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Davy, I just found a solution to my storage problem. I bought an enclosed 7X10 cargo trailer. It has as much storage space as some smaller storage units. It has a rear ramp door, so I can haul my Harley in it and use it like a garage for the bike. I haven't begun to use all the space it has made available. My marina allows me to park it in their lot at no charge. Wherever I go, I can bring the trailer and my van, and all my stuff as well. They aren't as expensive to buy as I thought they might be.

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("Fahrvergnügen")
Past Commodore
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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1361 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 :  15:44:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Steve, I'm already there.......dual axle storage trailer in addition to my "actual storage unit". Only most desirable "stuff" will be stored in the trailer.

Davy J

(Former photos in this area, as well as all my forum additions held ransom by Photobucket)

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
7427 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 :  19:25:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kyle, your story and your marriage are inspiring! Living aboard and taking your home to new venues is a dream you can realize, and when you "outlive" it, you can move on from it. I admire your dedication to your wife for her sacrifices for you, and your sacrifices for our country. It's great that you can now try a whole new thing! There will be surprises for both of you, but it will be exhilarating--compared to settling into the long-time homestead and watching the vegetables grow in the back yard!

Here's to the two of you!!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.
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Kper
Captain

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USA
404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2017 :  05:58:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

Kyle, your story and your marriage are inspiring! Living aboard and taking your home to new venues is a dream you can realize, and when you "outlive" it, you can move on from it. I admire your dedication to your wife for her sacrifices for you, and your sacrifices for our country. It's great that you can now try a whole new thing! There will be surprises for both of you, but it will be exhilarating--compared to settling into the long-time homestead and watching the vegetables grow in the back yard!

Here's to the two of you!!



Thanks for the kind words, Dave. Our dreams have taken twists and turns over the years and the roads we've traveled have shaped those dreams into what they are now. What we thought we wanted early in our marriage has changed as we aged and one day we woke up and realized we only get one opportunity at this thing called life. We both watch our parents living in the same houses for 50 years, doing the same routine, pinching the same pennies (when they've always had enough to travel), talking about all the things they wanted to do but are now too restricted by health to do them. We don't want to be caught at the end and left telling ourselves "we should have tried that". My wife's knees are starting to give her trouble and the military has beaten me up enough that I hurt most days but we are going to push forward until we think it's unreasonable. When we sold the house by the lake my brother thought we were crazy and actually chewed us out. Our kids love sailing and give us support. Not everybody will understand the decisions we all make but those decisions are ours to make. We are in control of our own lives and, God willing, we will get to live a little bit before we exit.

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
4889 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2017 :  06:40:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There's a lot to be said for downsizing your lifestyle. It opens up options to you. Selling your home turns it into cash, which is then available to supplement your retirement income or enables you to buy a car. You are free from the costs and chores connected with maintaining it, and the property taxes that come with it. You can live aboard, which is a very inexpensive lifestyle, or you can buy a smaller home in the locale of your choice, or you can rent an apartment if you wish. When you pass on, probating your estate will be greatly simplified, or perhaps even avoided altogether, saving your heirs an unpleasant and costly chore. It isn't the right choice for everyone, but the possibilities should be considered.

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("Fahrvergnügen")
Past Commodore
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