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 Sagging mast step -compression post
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Seahawk
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/29/2016 :  14:16:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
CP 25 Tribe,

As I work on my new-to-me CP25, I discovered the deck around the mast step, and the deck under the compression post, have both sagged around 3/4". My boat has a block of wood between the hull and floor-pan/liner, under the compression post. I suspect the wood has simply compressed after years in the bilge under the full compression load of the mast.

Two questions:

1. Is the wood block original?
2. If you have replaced the block, please share your repair story.

Thanks!

Seahawk

joearcht
Navigator

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USA
201 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2016 :  15:11:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My boat has the same problem.
I presume it is a age issue just as you have suggested.
Another owner of a Capri at my Club took his boat to a professional boat repair expert and he told him to live with it or sell the boat, but it was not feasible to repair.

I've considered just adding a spacer under the compression post, but I'm not sure what that will do at the cabin top, I don't want to compound the problem or break something else. My mast step has been repaired before due to cracking.

I guess what I'm wondering more than anything else is, does this significantly effect the performance of the boat (my main concern as I only race with this boat). Esthetics is not a big concern to me for such an old boat.

So far I haven't concluded that it doesn't, but then again, I don't win many races lol. Too many other variables for me to blame a settled mast step on my performance.

I'd be interested in other opinions on this subject also.

Joe W Hiller Jr
1985 Capri 25
Hull #433
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
4970 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2016 :  15:49:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I haven't done that kind of repair, but I have watched friends do it, and it certainly can be done by a DIYer. It would be un-economical to hire it done. What appears to have happened is that water got under the fiberglass skin on the deck, under the mast step, and deteriorated the core, which is probably plywood. You'd need to remove the skin, cut out the old, rotten coring material, and then install new coring material and re-cover it with fiberglass. If it's done with the right materials, it should never happen again.

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("Fahrvergnügen")
Past Commodore
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Seahawk
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2016 :  09:45:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Steve and CP25 tribe,

The deck may well have some compression, but the majority of the sag is the block under the compression post. A straight edge placed athwartship just aft of the post shows 3/4" of sag in the center. You can also see a considerable gap between the bottom of the port midship bulkhead (just aft of the porta potti spot), and the floor pan.

I ran a sawzall through the block, hammered in some wedges and blocks, and also used a hydraulic spreader. This definitely lifts the mast, but the fiberglass is rigid enough that it is simply lifting the floor pan with the post, and not straitening. I lifted until the rigging tightened, then stopped. (I had loosened all standing rigging before applying lifting force). If I want to apply more pressure, I shall have to remove the rig, and/or the compression post.

From experience, fiberglass is plastic, and can be bent (unbent in this case) but it does take considerable time and patience. This time of year, it is quite difficult to bend.

Hoping to come up with a method to remove the bad wood under the post without cutting more of the floorpan, then insert something 3/4" taller. The wood appears to be glued/epoxied in place. Hoping to avoid hammer and chisel, which can easily do damage.

Seahawk

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
4970 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2016 :  10:25:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Describe the condition to Catalina and ask their recommendations. They have provided detailed drawings and instructions for repairing some common problems which arise. Maybe they'll have such materials for your repair. If not, they might have a technician who can at least point you in the right direction with suggestions.

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("Fahrvergnügen")
Past Commodore
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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1026 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2016 :  18:09:36  Show Profile  Visit shnool's Homepage  Send shnool an AOL message  Send shnool a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
This is sadly a common problem.
See this video I found it is similar to an entire article an owner had written on how to repair this properly, but sadly the owner would not allow me to post the article. It was available for a while on that SA website.

Simply put, the floor liner likely needs to be rebuilt and reinforced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARQ2q9_PcBg

John Schramm, "MINI MOO," a 1982 WD Schock Wavelength 24, Sailing with the Paupack Sail Club, Lake Wallenpaupack, PA

Edited by - shnool on 04/03/2016 18:10:27
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yrugl.org
Deckhand

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9 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2016 :  10:58:35  Show Profile  Visit yrugl.org's Homepage  Reply with Quote
All,

Here is how I fixed it in 2011. I would NOT recommend putting it back the way the WYC C25 rules committee made me... There a simpler ways to stabilize the area under the compression post and around the keel. They should both be done at the same time as it is part of the same problem.

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=119553

Dan
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Seahawk
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2016 :  12:59:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dan,
Wow! Your solution is pretty involved. Prior owners of my boat had already removed and replaced the plywood over the keel.

I like your solution, but have decided on less complicated repair that will get me back on the water soon. Since the floorpan was previously cut apart for the keel repair, I was able to remove that section, and gain access to the compression post foot under the floor pan, and remove the wood. I've chipped out the bedding for it, and will replace the wood with "marine plastic lumber", which is High-density polyethylene, and is sold by several companies. I'm able to slide thin pieces in from the back, stacking them to the required height. After they are in place, I'll insert a couple screws from above to hold from shifting. My boat does not appear to have the hull deflect in front or behind the keel.

The really surprising thing about the rules committee decision is the requirement for the compression post footing to be made of wood, dooming the repair to be repeated, and the maximum thickness of 3". The compressed rotted footing which was removed is currently about 3.25", and will need to be around 4" to simply bring the deck back up to the correct height. 3" would worsen the original issue, which was the deck & hull liner sagging/warping.

To straighten the deck out, I came up with a pretty good solution. Will post pictures after I get this all done.

Hope this helps someone else out there!

Seahawk on the Chesapeake.

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SailTowery
Deckhand

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5 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2017 :  10:15:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey everyone! I believe my new to me CP25 also has this issue. Is there an update from the last post?
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Seahawk
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2017 :  05:23:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My insertion of the seaboard did work to return the deck to the correct position, and straighten the floor pan. We raced march-aug when we hauled for a quick bottom job, and discovered the hull had cracked, below the compression post, on the outside. Crack was about 8" long, and did not allow water in the boat.

Crack appeared to be through the gel coat and first layer of laminate. It is possible the crack had been there before, but un-noticed due to years of paint buildup. In the past couple of years, under my ownership, the rig was not under tension when hauled, and we had the compressed wooden block, so the crack would have been hard to see. It closed up significantly when I detensioned and pulled the compression post.

I detensioned everything, removed the compression post, and layered in 12 layers of glass-epoxy, on the inside of course. Mixture of mat, roving, then cloth. On the outside, ground out, feathered then applied 4 layers of glass cloth, and then smoothed. Reassembled, and found deck still somewhat sagging, then noticed the hull is bulging slightly under the post...so my repair is not completely effective...sigh. Said, "nuts! Let's try it!". Splashed mid Nov, and raced two frostbites, one with winds 20 G 36, and everything held together. Will be putting boat on trailer next week to make a better repair.

The hull must receive some additional strengthening in the under-post area to return it to the original shape. This will mean cutting out more or the floor pan, but so it goes.
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