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Replacing coachroof grab rails

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exf4gib
1st Mate

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USA
42 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/02/2020 : 15:57:46

Just received a new set of teak coach roof grab rails from my wife as a Christmas present for our C-25. While the coach roof is slightly curved, the new grab rails are straight. The seller said to just carefully 'bend' the rails to fit the coach roof. Has anyone had to deal with this? The 'bend' looks to be about 1" between the middle and end of this seven 'loop' grab rail. My concern is possibly damaging the rails in the 'bending' process. Have any of you faced this dilemma?

Arnie W.
85 C-25 TR/FK #4747 "Lifted"

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2020 : 00:05:56

quote:
Originally posted by exf4gib

Just received a new set of teak coach roof grab rails from my wife as a Christmas present for our C-25. While the coach roof is slightly curved, the new grab rails are straight. The seller said to just carefully 'bend' the rails to fit the coach roof. Has anyone had to deal with this? The 'bend' looks to be about 1" between the middle and end of this seven 'loop' grab rail. My concern is possibly damaging the rails in the 'bending' process. Have any of you faced this dilemma?

This has been discussed before. Use the search function to see if you can pull up some of the previous threads.

Pretty sure as long as you take it slow you shouldn't have any problems.

If you have a chance to document with photos post here and in the Tech Tips in the upper left corner of this web page.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - GaryB on 01/05/2020 00:07:19

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2020 : 10:10:34

When you remove the old ones, you'll probably see they return to being somewhat straighter, which suggests they were bent by the installation without incident. I recall mine had bolts under teak bungs and projecting out of the bottom. These were good for establishing the bend during re-installation (which was also without incident). I presume yours have no attachment hardware installed--it has to be matched up to your holes. Counter-sinking bolts makes it easy to make the bend as you install them. A tight countersink and little epoxy inside can hold the bolt heads from turning as you tighten them from below.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/05/2020 10:12:08

glivs
Admiral

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USA
822 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2020 : 10:43:50

From discussions past -
Replacing Handrails

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2020 : 15:12:54

If you�re interested you could always steam them to allow for easier bending. Some folks use the equivalent of a tea kettle and a plastic bag. See �Tips from a Shipwrights� steam bending method.

https://youtu.be/--iPQIwSEJM

Others have used a 4� piece of PVC tubing with end caps and copper pipe to supply steam from a kettle.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 01/08/2020 06:44:08

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2020 : 20:14:51

1-2" bend in 6' (?) will not require steaming--just a little push. They went on that way, come off that way, and go back on that way.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/05/2020 20:16:44

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3312 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2020 : 09:49:53

Having done this a couple of times I found it to be much easier if you had help to hold one end in place while you screwed the other.

Derek Crawford
Chief Measurer C25-250 2008
Previous owner of "This Side UP"
1981 C-25 TR/FK #2262 Used to have an '89 C22 #9483, "Downsized"
San Antonio, Texas

exf4gib
1st Mate

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USA
42 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2021 : 22:13:51

Thanks all! Your advice greatly appreciated! Since I've already "finished" these grab rails, "steaming" is probably out, and as others have suggested simply easing the rails into position is probably the best way to go. Fair winds to y'all!

Arnie W.
85 C-25 TR/FK #4747 "Lifted"

SKS
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2021 : 10:04:19

Make sure you predrill the mounting holes in the bottom of the new handrails before screwing them in place.

"Lady E" 1986 Catalina 25: Fin Keel, Standard Rig, Inboard M12 Diesel, Sail No. 5339
Sailing out of Norwalk Cove Marina, Connecticut

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2021 : 21:14:34

quote:
Originally posted by SKS

Make sure you predrill the mounting holes in the bottom of the new handrails before screwing them in place.

This is critically important if you're going to use wood screws from below. Not doing so risks splitting the new wood and/or breaking the screws by fatigue. Pre-drill slightly larger than the minor (inner) diameter of the screw threads and, if necessary, for the screw shank diameter.

In the thread linked to above, Leon Sisson describes a procedure for drilling in place, screwing the railings down as you proceed. I would prefer to use a thin strip of wood to mark the pattern of the holes in the cabin top, and then use that to mark the undersides of the railing "towers" and pre-drill all of the holes before assembly. I'd be afraid of getting off alignment, especially if the railing shifts laterally as you start the second hole.

I'd recommend hefty stainless steel screws - at least #12. If you don't have a hardware or marine supply store handy, try Bolt Depot online. Wood screws have a smooth shank for the penetration through the cabin top, which would be better for this than sheetmetal screws, which are threaded up to their heads. Finishing washers under the heads make a good-looking completion (like the factory hardware elsewhere in the cabin) and they serve an important function by spreading the load from the head to the surrounding surface.

It probably isn't necessary to caulk around the entire base of each "tower", or to coat the entire base of each one; you can make a real mess if you're not careful, and you'll have a helluva time removing them to refinish them. But, at a minimum, countersink the TOPS of the holes through the cabin top and place a bead around each screw to get pushed down into the countersinks to form waterproof gaskets at each penetration of the cabin top.

If you can get someone to help, insert a screw (at either end) through the cabin top and caulk around it where it emerges. Then align the hole in the railing and hold the railing up so it doesn't push the screw down (this keeps the ring of caulk intact around the screw, to form a good gasket when you're done). Repeat the process at the other end, leaving the railing bridging the sag in the cabin top. You can then insert the intermediate screws and tighten them just until their heads contact the cabin overhead. Then place a ring of caulk around each one where it emerges. Draw the railing down by turning each screw a turn or so at a time to keep tension on all of them.

Then, step back and admire your work! And post pictures for the encouragement of others in the future.

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2021 : 14:34:19

If you have the pop top and no double or triple rope clutches now and think you might want to add them, then you might want to shorten the new rails by one loop, giving you extra room at the ends of the cabin top.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2021 : 13:20:19

I used butyl tape to bed my refinished rails. As I tightened the nuts onto the existing rail studs in the cabin, the rails seated into the butyl tape. The butyl tape slightly protruded along the perimeter of the seated rail sections and so I left the residual tape in place and only trimmed it in a few places where there was excessive tape sticking out. Pretty clean job and believe the tape lasts longer than typical sealants, etc used.

Since I was re-installing existing rails, the rails had the existing studs and so the nuts were tightened to bed the rails. However, one stud had stripped threads and I could not get the nut on. I was going to cut off the lower part of the stud but then was concerned there would not be enough of the stud protruding into the cabin to get the nut back on. I came across a useful tool that solved the problem. I repaired the threads with EZ Thread bought on Amazon. It�s similar to a small drill bit but has a hardened metal bevel on the end of the bit. Comes in two sizes. I bought the small one for repairing stripped threads on small studs. Think it cost less than $10. Inserted it into my Dremel and then I lightly went over the thread grooves 2-3 times. Nut went on smoothly. Actually, I was surprised as to how well it repaired the damaged threads. One thing though, the EZ thread bit is so small, chances are I would never find it if I ever needed it in the future...so I keep it in a little plastic case with Dremel bits and with the EZ Thread card, otherwise I would never find it again or recognize what it is even looking for,it,in my plastic case.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2021 : 22:04:48

Where�s a good place to get the butyl tape?

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

bjoye
Navigator

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USA
105 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2021 : 10:07:36

Maine Sail has the best butyl tape

https://shop.marinehowto.com/products

"Frayed Knot" 1989 C-25 WK/SR #5878

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2021 : 18:33:43

West Marine also sells it but I do not recall the manufacturer. They sell it in white which I s the most popular and also , I believe, in black or grey. If not on the shelf, then you can order it and pick it up locally.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2021 : 21:31:15

Thanks guys.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2021 : 22:09:37

I was checking a bit more on buying butyl tape.
First of all, West Marine sells Imcon Butyl tape.
The West Marine product is approximately 20 ft. The Maine Sail product believe it was twice as long and much less costly compared to the West Marine product.
The Maine Sail product which they call Bed It, indicates it was specially formulated and has a mfr/vendor write up that indicates what went into making this formulated Butyl Tape.
A check on Amazon comes up with many suppliers of Butyl tape that are competitively priced. Mfrs write ups indicate which ones are used for boat applications - most indicate they are for boats, RVs, etc. Many of the butyl tapes offered have reviews rated with 4 1/2 stars and ranging from 100s to 1000s of reviews. Butyl tape is sold in lengths between 20-50 ft, widths 1/2' - 3/4" and thicknesses 1/8" or thereabouts.
The basic reason I went with butyl tape was based on past forum discussions as to what others used and liked and at the time I was reviewing the postings was probably 2 years or so ago. I do not recall the specifics discussed but basic thought was that butyl tape was superior for applying/installing and longevity compared to other products commonly used for bedding fasteners, rails, etc. I went the local route getting the butyl tape but getting from Maine Sail also has merit......and then you have various choices via Amazon.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 01/30/2021 22:49:45

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