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Am I crazy, or . . . (don't be shy)

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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/27/2019 : 18:34:45

So the Admiral would like me to have a boat with diesel vs. outboard where I hang over the transom, etc. I have found a C-27 with new (all since 2016) Diesel, Sails, Standing Rigging, Furler, Plumbing, etc. However, it has blisters, not big ones, but tons of small ones ABOVE THE WATER LINE all allegedly from being shrink wrapped for three yeas before the most recent previous owner. The boat looks like new other than the topsides. So, . . . . a deal or no deal? At my age, am looking for reliable and easy to sail boat for 5-10 years. Resale is not the issue. Thoughts??

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Edited by - bigelowp on 09/28/2019 06:24:19

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4275 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2019 : 18:41:34

Pictures of the blisters?

If resale is not an issue I'd probably go for it since the blisters are above the water line.

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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2019 : 19:02:22

Gary:

Never could post pics successfully, but they are small, more like pimples but omnipresent. Allegedly, boat was shrink wrapped for several years. I question that, but my research into blisters says they are more cosmetic than structural. At my age looking for 5-10 years and will never cross an ocean

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Edited by - bigelowp on 09/28/2019 06:24:51

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4275 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2019 : 22:00:56

That's a hard one to say for sure. My guess with blisters that small they would only be cosmetic. I'd be more concerned that the boat may have soft spots due to window or fitting leaks.

Can you find out where it was sitting when it was shrink wrapped? If so, I'd call and see if anyone can confirm that story.

I'd definitely spend the money for an inspection and then decide how to proceed. I'd also low ball them on the price. Doesn't matter if it has newer engine, sails, rigging, etc....it still has an issue that's going to drastically reduce the pool of potential buyers willing to buy it because of the blisters.

Also, why are they selling it?

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2019 : 06:23:13

It's at a Catalina dealer, had been at their yard for years and was taken in trade for a new 355. They are very open about the fact that despite all the new items the resale is severely negatively impacted by the blisters and the price reflects it. That said, interior is in great shape, deck has higher moisture readings, but lower than my current boat. Interesting what options pop up when looking at used sail boats.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2019 : 07:31:14

DEAL. All boats over 25 years show some moisture in the deck cores, and even a little in the hull laminates. Have a surveyor locate some concentrations, and then re-bed the hardware in those areas. My C-25 had tiny (1/8") blisters in the boot stripe--the surveyor said it was from algae, but who knows? A ball-peen hammer and the surveyor's ear will detect delamination from serious blisters--these don't seem to be meaningful, except to nervous buyers who probably really need new boats. It sounds like that boat has been made like new in most of the B.O.A.T. ways! 50% more displacement, 50% more ballast, almost 2' more beam,... And the C-27 is one of the great "commodity" boats--sails beautifully, and parts and the market will always be there. (Even if you're not worried about resale, your kids don't want to end up with a white elephant!)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/28/2019 07:40:23

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2019 : 08:33:27

Peter, following the inspection, if the report was acceptable, would you attempt to remedy the blister pimples or let the boat dry out over the winter under a tarp?

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2019 : 08:53:14

Blister repair is north of $10k. From all I have read I believe this type (pimples vs quarter size +) is just cosmetic. I would expect a surveyor might verbally give an opinion, but will in writing say "blisters, possibly from osmosis, should be remedied . . . . " Not saying it has never happened, but I have never read of a sailboat foundering because of blisters -- especially in coastal waters. I do believe for heavy use/offshore/etc. they could impact structural integrity. The PO was racing this hard off Shelter Island -- winning usually -- with no apparent structural issues (e.g. crazing around hardware, etc.) Possibly my comfort is because of all I have learned over the past year with a boat that has deck moisture readings north of 30% -- but has firm decks. Am looking at several different boat options, however this one is intriguing: for a little more than the cost of the furller get the whole shebang. Oh, and went sailing on Friday on my boat and must say, darned good condition warts and all compared to some of the other boats I have looked at!

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Edited by - bigelowp on 09/29/2019 08:56:37

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2019 : 10:01:43

quote:
Originally posted by bigelowp

...Oh, and went sailing on Friday on my boat and must say, darned good condition warts and all compared to some of the other boats I have looked at!

I'm constantly amazed by the condition and just general presentation of so many for-sale boats I've looked at over the years. The three I've sold (2 sail, one power) I shined up, cleared out, and straightened up... In all three cases the first prospective buyers couldn't hide their excitement, and made their offers on the spot--two of them for the asking price. Then each one said something like, "You can't imagine some of the things we've looked at..." (I could.) Boat buying is an emotional thing--the seller just needs to "take advantage" of that! (I'm not ashamed!)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2019 : 10:49:54

Dave:

Amen!

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2019 : 14:11:07

quote:
allegedly from being shrink wrapped for three yeas before the most recent previous owner.

Peter, Believe it. I've seen that happen. I had a friend who would leave his boat in the water year round. One winter he left a welcome mat on the cockpit floor. The moisture under it would freeze and thaw over and over. When he finally picked the mat up the fiberglass underneath was cracked and crazed with small blisters. Anyway I like my winter cover that only comes to the stanchions. Just enough to keep the snow and rain off but provides lots of ventilation.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

SKS
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2019 : 14:24:59

Funny. I'm considering selling my 1986 Cat 25 with diesel

"Lady E" 1986 Catalina 25: Fin Keel, Standard Rig, Inboard M12 Diesel, Sail No. 5339
Sailing out of Norwalk Cove Marina, Connecticut

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2019 : 15:58:28

quote:
Originally posted by SKS

Funny. I'm considering selling my 1986 Cat 25 with diesel

Last I knew, Peter stored his C-25 at Norwalk Cove (as did I). His home port is in Rowayton. Who knows..........

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/29/2019 15:59:01

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2019 : 17:14:04

Peter, I doubt anything that anybody says here will change your opinion.
Go for it and don�t look back.
I promise I won�t tell anybody about the little issue with your current boat, put it on the Swap meet and go for top dollar.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2019 : 20:07:41

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

Peter, I doubt anything that anybody says here will change your opinion.

...although maybe it will support or confirm it...

quote:
I promise I won�t tell anybody about the little issue...

Obviously, the era of secrets has long passed. Only blinded, disconnected buyers who don't employ any expertise are "left out". As with the C-27 Peter is looking at, transparency is the best policy. That way buyers can feel like they can trust the presentation. A survey is how they finally "trust but verify", but "trust" is how you get a potential buyer to that point.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/30/2019 20:15:50

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2019 : 23:20:24

All very true, but It was a joke Dave...

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

jmstee
Deckhand

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USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2019 : 12:10:15

The bottom of my boat is covered with thousands of tiny blisters immediately after being hauled they contain barely a trace of moisture. it looks like little pox all over the place. Does anyone have any recommendation on a remedy for this? Its not worth spending a ton of money on in my opinion. should I just apply new antifouling over it and pretend its not there? Should I let it dry for the winter then barrier coat in the spring or do i need to open every one literally thousands of #8539; in blisters that only penetrate the gelcoat. Im afraid this cosmetic blemish now will worsen with time. I want to post a picture but am not smart enough for that.

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2019 : 15:02:55

There appears to be a difference of opinions about gelcoat. Some say it's purely aesthetic and others claim it provides a layer of water resistance. Luckily for us, I don't think it usually matters which is correct.

In most cases, blisters only extend into the gelcoat. Accordingly, if the gelcoat is blistered, then all you really should do is sand through the damaged area and then paint over it with a barrier paint. If you want to smooth over it with a dab of filler you can, but I don't think it's really necessary.

If the underlying fiberglass is sound, and you have removed the damaged part of the gelcoat, and dried it out, and then barrier coated it, then you have replaced whatever water resistant quality the original gelcoat might have provided.

My advice is to do what's necessary to make it sound, and then get it on the water and enjoy it.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 10/25/2019 16:37:32

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2019 : 19:47:04

quote:
Originally posted by jmstee

The bottom of my boat is covered with thousands of tiny blisters immediately after being hauled they contain barely a trace of moisture...

A few questions:

1. Is it the whole bottom or mostly near the waterline? If the latter, I've been told it's common, and due to algae growth.

2. Salt water or fresh? Fresh water is more prone to developing blisters. (In Beverly MA, I presume salt, but has it always been in salt water?)

I agree with Steve, although this amounts to a fairly serious bottom job--sanding, barrier coating, and painting... If we're talking about tiny gelcoat blisters after how many years, how much worse will it ever be? And how much is she worth versus the cost (or effort) of a full bottom job? And do you expect to sell her any time soon? If so, appearances might be more important--if not, this does not sound like a show-stopping issue for your enjoyment of the boat.

When is the last time you heard of gelcoat blisters leading to the destruction of a hull? Never. They don't. Blisters in the laminate may be another issue, but fiberglass hulls basically last FOREVER whether they have lamination blisters ("delamination") or not--show me an example to the contrary. I'm 75 years old, have been around since fiberglass boats were invented, and have never heard of one that had to be disposed of because of the hull's failure. It's always everything else (or storm damage). Our plastics will outlive our societies.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/26/2019 06:53:55

jmstee
Deckhand

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USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2019 : 05:39:17

I do have them along the water line and they opened up which is another story. I wish I could post a picture. its all below the water line. Boat has been in salt water its whole life i believe.

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2019 : 07:04:33

To post a photo:
1. Put it somewhere on the web--either in our Photo Gallery (menu at left) or in a photo site like Shutterfly.com.

2. Access the photo and "copy" its address to the clipboard (right click in Windows).

3. In your post, click the

in the Format header, which creates [ img ] and [ /img ] in your post.

4. "Paste" (Ctrl-v) the address between the ] and the [.

Done. (I used that button to put its image in this post.)

For multiple photos, hit Enter between them so each one goes below rather than alongside the one before it.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/26/2019 07:09:36

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