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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Outhaul

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glivs
Admiral

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USA
822 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/04/2019 : 04:49:34

In anticipation of moving to a loose-footed main I need to upgrade my outhaul. Some secure the control line on the boom, others bring it back to the cockpit. Thoughts?

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2019 : 05:45:14

From West Marine:

Using a Harken 22mm Fiddle micro block w/ v-jam cleat and becket

Block and tackle and snap shackle

Dyneema soft shackle to connect to the sail. This photo was before I added the soft shackle and trimmed up the bitter end. I thought I'd need it to disconnect and reconnect when reefing but I haven't been doing that so I trimmed much of the line and tied the bitter end to the shackle at the end of the boom.

I love it and used it for some time, I don't get running this to the cabin top. It's right there by my head.

Looking at trying out an outhaul from a windsurfing company.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Edited by - redeye on 06/04/2019 06:06:24

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2019 : 06:05:08

I've done it both ways. Whichever way you rig it, the question is, "Is it functional?" Leading a control line aft to the cockpit makes it easy to access, but it also adds friction to run a line through turning blocks. On my Cal 25, the outhaul control line is led aft to the cockpit, and it's easy to flatten the mainsail with the outhaul, but to loosen it I have to climb onto the coach roof and pull at it, because the friction on the complicated blocks that the PO installed won't release it, especially in lighter air. The outhaul adjuster on my Catalina 25, which was apparently similar to Ray's, was a simple, on-the-boom adjuster, and it worked easily both ways. Whatever works best is the best.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 06/04/2019 06:11:36

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2019 : 06:31:12

the HOLT
V Cleat Block, Fiddle and Jammer looks cooler.

also west marine

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2019 : 07:58:34

I crewed on a friend's boat that had a nice arrangement. It had a clam cleat with a fairlead on both sides of the boom. A single line ran aft from one of those cleats to a double snatch block on the end of the boom, then forward to a single snatch block attached to the clew of the mainsail, then back through the other sheave of the double block, then forward to the clam cleat on the other side of the boom, where it terminated. It made it easy to adjust the outhaul, regardless of which tack the boat was on.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2019 : 09:32:58

Similar set up. The line is tied to the sail then runs to a block on the boom end casing then forward to a block on the sail then back to a clam cleat. The lower line is a reefing line.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1889 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2019 : 21:28:03

I prefer a high ratio outhaul easily accessible without leaving the helm. On my Catalinas, I have two different 8:1 outhaul arrangements.

On the Catalina 25, I used a 2:1 wire rope around a wire block in the outhaul car, a wire cheek block far back on the side of the boom, with the wire entering the extrusion wall via a slot between SS lined fairleads. Inside the boom is a cascade of 2:1 lines and bullet blocks. The 3/16" polyester double braid 8:1 tail emerges around a ball bearing exit block through the underside of the boom just aft of the gooseneck. (Providing possible future option of leading aft on deck, see below.) From there, the tail runs aft externally under the boom about 4 ft to a "head knocker" pivoting turning block and cam cleat assembly.

On the Catalina 22, I used a 1/16" wire rope from the outhaul car to an exit block recessed into the center groove of the boom as far aft as possible. Inside the boom, starting at the wire, is a 2:1 flying bullet with 1/4" polyester double braid in cascade with a 4:1 3/16" polyester double braid which emerges at an exit block under the boom at the gooseneck, as above. From there, the long 3/16" tail goes through a turning block at the mast base, a deck organizer, and ends with a metal Clamcleat. The Clamcleat is one of the partially cut away line retaining fairlead style, with the gap facing outboard. This allows the line to run free completely removed from the cleat, but it doesn't do so by accident. One of the advantages of high ratio boom control lines led aft is sliding goose neck movement has minimal effect on the adjustment.

Regarding friction: in my outhauls, most of it seems to occur between the outhaul car or clew slug and the boom slot. All those ball bearing blocks spin quite freely. One advantage of cascade tackles is fewer moving parts so less friction, and lower average line velocity compared to fiddles, side-by-side doubles, triples, etc. One disadvantage of cascade tackles is their limited travel and 'flying' bullet blocks. (Not well suited to halyards and sheets!

)

Some suggestions for running rigging inside a spar.

Reliability is paramount!

Eliminate all self tapping screws extending inside the extrusion. (I consider this just basic cleaning up mass production short cuts, but do it before putting any moving parts in there.)

Measure and calculate line lengths for both extremes of range to get the most usable travel out of the system.

Optimum line lengths may require temporary messenger or fishing lines to assemble. (Or at least to avoid loose ends escaping inside the extrusion.)

Size lines according to load � thin tail for low friction, stronger line for heavily loaded sections.

Use high quality line chosen for longevity and resistance to abrasion.

Splice rather than knot wherever possible.

If a knot is unavoidable, choose it carefully, and restrain the free end with whipping, or heat shrink tube and adhesive.

If crimping, use the correct crimping tools. (Not cheap electrical crimper, channel-locks, vice-grips, etc.)

Don't skimp on hardware. Spend the extra few $$ for the most appropriate item from Harken, Ronstan, etc.

A Dremel with carbide bits, a small bright flashlight, and patience are all very helpful.

Dang, this is getting long. I think I'll stop here.

� Leon

� Leon Sisson

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2019 : 04:10:50

have a 16 to 1 internal led back to the cockpit with a loose footed mainsail. 4 to 1 double with 2 cascading blocks on that. All amsteel lines. I can adjust the foot tension easily into the 20 knot range. Of course by that time I am reefed.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2019 : 17:12:38

Here's another approach to obtaining mechanical advantage (and convenience of use) in the mainsail outhaul.

I usually sail alone or with friends who have no crew expertise, and I like to stay in the cockpit - especially in the 25 knot winds and steep chop typical on SF Bay every Summer afternoon. Quite often it's not practical to bring the boom amidships to make an adjustment at the aft end, so an internal system controlled from the cockpit was needed.

This first picture shows the internal tackle. The blue stuff is flexible foam from a backpacking sleeping pad. It keeps the two fiddle blocks from clanging against the inside of the boom while still allowing the aft block to slide easily. The wood plugs inside the fiddle block are just bushings to stabilize the screws holding the foam side panels in place. BTW, I have subsequently changed to a smaller, more flexible rope, with only the pennant from the aft block out to the snap shackle (not shown in this shot) made of low-stretch rope.

The second shot shows the small eye nut and the countersunk screw that anchor the forward fiddle block.

The third shot is the exit block I made for the aft end of the boom. Although I was able to use a Harken #106 on the bottom of the fwd. end, the slot in the top of the boom required the connecting screws to be alongside the sheave. I don't remember why I decided not to use one of the Kenyon exit blocks (avail. from Rig-Rite, Inc.), but this DIY unit has been working well.

Here's the modification for the exit block at the top of the aft end of the boom.

This last shot is the best I have on hand showing the line coming from the Harken exit block down to the turning block at the mast base (the other stuff on the boom is for my retractable lazy jacks).

I calculated the lengths of the haul line and the pennant, leaving abundant excess on both, and then I made the final cuts after it was assembled and in place. There is more than enough travel to reach the clew cringle for my second reef and also to stretch the foot taut when the sail is at full hoist.

The assembly was easily pulled into the boom after threading the haul line through and out at the exit block. Care was taken in running the line onto the fiddle blocks without twist so the aft block probably stays properly aligned instead of twisting and binding. It seems to be running smoothly, although I haven't taken the end cap off to check.

Finally, I need to remember to release the haul line from its stopper before hoisting the sail to its limit. I had the sail sized to raise the boom a little so that I could use the downhaul (the blue line in my last photo) to tension the luff.

For the relatively small sails on our little Catalina 25s we don't really need much mechanical advantage. This setup provides more than enough force to draw my loose-footed main taught in any conditions I've encountered. In fact, if it were any stronger I think I'd damage the tack or clew of my mainsail.

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

glivs
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
822 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2019 : 04:49:59

What an incredible pool of experience....thanks all...this is why this forum is successful. Now I have some decisions and homework to do.

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1519 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2019 : 12:27:47

I used an extra mainsheet rig to add an outhaul. I get more force when tensioning the outhaul under load by standing up at the helm with the tiller between my legsand pulling the bitter end as well as pulling on the line on the boom that is between the blocks.

JohnP
1978 C25 SR/FK "Gypsy"
Mill Creek off the Magothy River, Chesapeake Bay
Port Captain, northern Chesapeake Bay

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