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Grato
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts
Initially Posted - 05/27/2019 :  14:00:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wondering if there are any users with electric outboard experience on a Catalina 25. I currently have a 13 yr old Yamaha 9.9 on my boat and have been having carburetor issues. Thinking about making the switch to a Torqeedo Cruise 4.0TL. I know this won't save me any dough, but from a maintenance and reliability standpoint might make sense. I sail on Lake Dillon at 9000', so my 9.9 is not delivering full HP at this altitude anyway. The Cruise 4.0 is rated at 8hp equivalent. Anyone using Torqeedo or other electric outboards?

Thanks,
Mark

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts
Response Posted - 05/27/2019 :  16:45:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Are you on a slip with shore power, or on a mooring? Recharging the batteries is your primary issue. Good to have the recommended amount of AHs for the electric outboard motor, plus a backup battery. Or a Honda 1000W generator just in case ...
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
Edited by - Voyager on 05/27/2019 16:46:57
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Grato
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts
Response Posted - 05/27/2019 :  18:28:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

Are you on a slip with shore power, or on a mooring? Recharging the batteries is your primary issue. Good to have the recommended amount of AHs for the electric outboard motor, plus a backup battery. Or a Honda 1000W generator just in case ...


I'm at a slip, but no power. The motor is only getting in and out of the slip. Once in a while need it if the wind disappears while out on the lake. But basically minimal use. I thought I'd add a PV panel to keep the batteries topped up. I don't know exactly how big of a panel I'd need but that was the initial thought.
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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts
Response Posted - 05/28/2019 :  05:59:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Mark,
I converted to a Torqeedo 2.0 Cruise in 2012 and love it. Rated at 6hp, it works well around the marina and for trips of 20 miles or so.
The reasoning at the time was that I could easily see that two 12VDC batteries would fit in the fuel locker to power the motor. I have shore power and have a ProMariner smart charger to keep the batteries topped up.
After five years, I decided to add another battery bank and smart charger to give redundancy. I should have done this several years earlier. But was reluctant to dedicate the space under the cockpit floor in the quarter berth. Having the second battery bank last year worked out great.
The Torqeedo 2.0 is the minimum that you would want. The 4.0 will give higher speeds for a longer time when cruising or working against a strong current.
Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839
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Drews Cruise
1st Mate

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USA
39 Posts
Response Posted - 05/28/2019 :  10:20:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mark, I had to move my baby around a cove and used a 25+ year old water troll and didn’t expect much but that sucker pushed it along nicely and didn’t use nearly as much battery as I thought it would. I’d go for it.

Also, are you willing to sell your Yamaha 9.9? Trying to find a good price on an outboard and I do work on small engines anyways...A few bucks towards your electric kicker couldn’t hurt and my grandfather actually in Frisco right by you so he could pick it up and make the transaction in person

Let me know,

Drew
Edited by - Drews Cruise on 05/28/2019 10:23:26
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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts
Response Posted - 05/28/2019 :  14:14:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bill -- I'm curious -- One battery, I believe, would weigh the same as a filled small gas tank as is used by Yamaha, Mercury, Tohatsu, etc. Two batteries begins to add some weight, like having a second full tank of gas, but when you added the second bank of batteries was there any impact on trim or weight in the stern? Each year the electric motors improve -- just have always been concerned that weight of batteries, as well as recharging apparatus might make them too heavy relative to alternatives.
Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts
Response Posted - 05/28/2019 :  14:40:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
These Torqeedo motors need special batteries?? https://shopweeboats.com/blogs/expert-advice/charging-torqeedo-power-26-104-batteries
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts
Response Posted - 05/28/2019 :  15:11:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I’m not going to talk about what kind of batteries or voltages you need, just total power. 1 HP is 746 Watts. So 2HP is 1492W. So at 24 VDC that’s 62 amps. 20 mins is 1/3 hours so that’s about 20 AH from two batteries. If you have two 30W solar panels, each can generate 1.5 amps for about 6-8 hours per day. You’d need to charge the batteries for about three days of sunny weather.
If you used the 4.0 HP version, you need 4 batteries and 4 panels. Shore power is probably a more reliable way to go
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
Edited by - Voyager on 05/28/2019 16:17:46
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts
Response Posted - 05/28/2019 :  15:29:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, The Price for the Torqeedo 4.0 is around $4500. Throw in battery's and large solar panels and chargers and your probably over $5000. A 6hp gas motor sounds like it would fit your needs for a whole lot less. Just my 2 cents.
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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Grato
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts
Response Posted - 05/28/2019 :  16:23:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for all your insights. I certainly have more homework to do, but it's good to know that pushing a Catalina 25 with one of these is at least feasible. Whether or not it makes economic sense is another debate.

My understanding is that Torqueedo motors do not have to use their proprietary battery banks, but have somewhat better functionality in terms of remaining power, distance vs. power output, etc.. that the on-board display shows. When using generic batteries, remaining power is an "estimate". Figuring out the right kind of battery is another issue. Lithium would be great but very costly, and the motor would primarily be used to drive in and out of the slip, or back to the marina when the wind quits. I doubt I'd get past 75% battery capacity. So solar recharging would be fairly quick I think.

I did a quick internet search last night for PV panels and found a number of 100W panels in the $90-$100 range + another $20 or so for a regulator. Couldn't a bank of batteries be charged by a single larger PV panel, rather than (1) smaller panel per battery? I am no expert here, just asking

Thank you again for your input!
Mark
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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts
Response Posted - 05/28/2019 :  16:29:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Like with electric cars, it boils down too many factors, including weight vs recharge time vs power. Would LOVE a 25 inch shaft electric motor that could be recharged quickly. Was at a Tesla meeting a few months ago and THAT is their challenge: Getting recharging of batteries to take similar time as refilling a gas tank. Technology marches on!
Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT
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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts
Response Posted - 05/30/2019 :  11:32:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi All,
1. Peter & Scott - The Torqeedo does not need special battery banks. I installed two Group 27 12 VDC batteries that I wired in a series to generate the required 24 volts for my motor. Last year I added a second similar bank. Both battery banks use lead acid batteries, and have ProMariner smart chargers (one for each bank). The two batteries in the fuel locker probably weigh about 50 lbs more than the 5.5 gallons of gasoline used previously. But the trim is adequately taken care of by the fresh water tank at 1/3 or so full.
The second battery bank is placed under the cockpit floor in the quarter berth area. The bank is located at about the same place as an inboard diesel engine would be placed. So, no real trim adjustment needed.
2 . There's no question about it lack of fuel smells and the overall quietness is a real plus. Additionally, I have had Snickerddoodle since I bought her new in 1985. In that time, I have gone through three gasoline outboards. The last two were probably due directly to ethanol being added to the fuel and deteriorating the fuel system.
3. Mark - If I did not have access to shore power, I would know more about solar panels. That is not the case though. There's no doubt that the Cruise 4.0 model will give you better cruising performance; and possibly better performance in stormy weather. But, I don't know that you will notice much difference from the Cruise 2.0 around the marina.
Bill Holcomb, C25 Snickerdoodle #4839
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Grato
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts
Response Posted - 05/30/2019 :  18:02:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Holcomb

Hi All,
1. Peter & Scott - The Torqeedo does not need special battery banks. I installed two Group 27 12 VDC batteries that I wired in a series to generate the required 24 volts for my motor. Last year I added a second similar bank. Both battery banks use lead acid batteries, and have ProMariner smart chargers (one for each bank). The two batteries in the fuel locker probably weigh about 50 lbs more than the 5.5 gallons of gasoline used previously. But the trim is adequately taken care of by the fresh water tank at 1/3 or so full.
The second battery bank is placed under the cockpit floor in the quarter berth area. The bank is located at about the same place as an inboard diesel engine would be placed. So, no real trim adjustment needed.
2 . There's no question about it lack of fuel smells and the overall quietness is a real plus. Additionally, I have had Snickerddoodle since I bought her new in 1985. In that time, I have gone through three gasoline outboards. The last two were probably due directly to ethanol being added to the fuel and deteriorating the fuel system.
3. Mark - If I did not have access to shore power, I would know more about solar panels. That is not the case though. There's no doubt that the Cruise 4.0 model will give you better cruising performance; and possibly better performance in stormy weather. But, I don't know that you will notice much difference from the Cruise 2.0 around the marina.
Bill Holcomb, C25 Snickerdoodle #4839



Bill,
Thanks for your reply. I figure if I do make the switch, and go with the Cruise 4.0, I'd locate both battery banks under the quarter berth, pretty much along the centerline to avoid trim issues.

Do you have additional batteries in the locker under the starboard saloon bench for house needs? I think you'd have to since all that stuff is 12v, right?

-Mark
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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts
Response Posted - 05/31/2019 :  06:07:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Do I have house batteries in the battery "box" under the starboard settee? Yes. Two Group 24 batteries. These are wired individually through a battery "on-1-off-2" switch. I have a smart charger in the big port side cockpit locker next to the switch that "hard wires" these two batteries to the charger.
Bill Holcomb -- C25 Snickerdoodle #4839
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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
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