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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

teak handrails

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cat25
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USA
140 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/14/2019 : 05:41:30

Has anyone had experience installing teak plugs on the teak handrails. I am thinking of changing
the ones that are there. thanks.

Ken
Chenango~
1990~TR~WK~C25~#6022
Candlewood Lake, Ct

Bladeswell
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490 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2019 : 07:53:31

Hello Cat25,

First, I am assuming you know how to remove the existing plugs. Your new handrails may or may not be predrilled. Most likely not. After drilling the screw shank holes, you will need to drill the counter sink holes from the top. If you don't have the plugs yet, you can get them from WM. I would suggest 3/8" plugs.
Once your new handrails are bedded you can install the plugs. I find Gorilla Glue Original works very well on teak. Try not to counter sink deeper than 1/4". Once glued in place allow to dry overnight then using a sharp chisel, sheere off the tops of the plugs very nearly flush with the handrails surface. Now sand to a flush fit and finish. When putting in the plugs, try to have the grain of the plugs running the same as the handrail. When sheering off the excess, cut with the grain. Best of luck with your project.
Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

cat25
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140 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2019 : 14:22:33

Thanks for the information, its very helpful. Catalina Direct suggests half inch plugs for the teak handrails. I will go to the boat and see what size bolts were used to anchor the handrails.

Ken
Chenango~
1990~TR~WK~C25~#6022
Candlewood Lake, Ct

SKS
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161 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2019 : 16:08:34

Good general information on installing plugs, but I'm a little confused on the particulars.
On my 1986 Catalina 25, the handrails are installed by long screws (3"?) driven into the underside from inside the cabin. There are no plugs that I'm aware of for the handrails.

"Lady E" 1986 Catalina 25: Fin Keel, Standard Rig, Inboard M12 Diesel, Sail No. 5339
Sailing out of Norwalk Cove Marina, Connecticut

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2019 : 17:24:53

I thought the same. Screwed from the inside.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2019 : 21:01:17

On my 1985, the handrails were installed (I presumed by the factory) with a combination of bolts and screws. The bolts, installed in just a few of the "legs", were used to establish the curvature. Then the screws in the remaining legs pulled everything down tight. The bolt heads were countersunk in the rails, with bungs covering them. The screws came up from the inside of the cabin. After removing and reinstalling the rails, I considered it very sensible.

To replace the bungs, I presume you would need to remove the rails and then use a hammer on the bolts to knock the old ones out. An alternative I'd consider is using something like "plastic wood" to smooth over the tops of the existing bungs, and then sand down to mostly reveal the teak bungs. This might not be ideal if you use teak oil on the rails, but if you use Cetol or another finish, it might be satisfactory.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

cat25
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140 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2019 : 06:16:26

Thanks for all the helpful information. Going to the boat this weekend to check out how they are attached.

Ken
Chenango~
1990~TR~WK~C25~#6022
Candlewood Lake, Ct

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2019 : 09:30:06

Hello Everyone,

The instruction I provided is for installing wooden plugs in general. Not meant as handrail specific. Though there would be no difference. Like most of you, my "79" had all screws coming up from the inside of the cabin with no holes going all the way thru. So in that case, no plugs or (bungs) needed.
The best method of plug removal is to drill a small pilot hole from the top of the plug to the bottom where it hits the top of the screw it is covering. Be sure to stop as soon as you make contact. You don't want to damage the screw head. Now use an appropriate size wood screw to go into the pilot hole and once it bottoms out on the screws head, the plug will begin to turn in it's hole and the screw will then remove it. Hope this helps. BTW, new replacement teak handrails are available from CD and they are not pre-drilled.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

cat25
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140 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2019 : 13:39:52

I went to the boat and checked out the installation of the handrails from inside the cabin. There are 4 bolts and 4 screws equally spaced which results in 2 screws in the middle. I know the sequence. Port and starboard the same. I know what I have to do now.
thanks for all the great information. Looking forward to better weather to start the work.

Ken
Chenango~
1990~TR~WK~C25~#6022
Candlewood Lake, Ct

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2019 : 19:39:39

That's probably the configuration I had. It makes it easy to install with a slight bend by putting the bolts toward the center in their holes, and then the ones toward the ends. The screws then pull down the other "legs". I'll suggest champfering the holes, as with a large drill bit, so the sealant you choose (I've always used Life Caulk polysulfide) creates a substantial seal around the bolts and screws.

Removing the bungs is your choice, of course, but might be avoidable. Some mariners make their own "plastic teak" filler with teak sawdust (from sanding) and wood glue. It probably wouldn't take much. I removed and refinished my rails a couple of times without removing the bungs and bolts. But I don't know the condition of yours. Just remember, nobody is going to inspect them from inside of about 5'--probably more like 10', if at all--it's a sailboat.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

cat25
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140 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2019 : 06:24:58

Thanks for all the great information. happy sailing

Ken
Chenango~
1990~TR~WK~C25~#6022
Candlewood Lake, Ct

Leon Sisson
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1889 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2019 : 12:12:18

My handrails are attached by screws from inside the boat. I use the longest square-drive stainless steel 'deck screws' which won't poke through the top of the rail, with stainless steel trim washers on the inside.

As mentioned above, I slightly countersink the holes in the cabin top and handrails to form an O-ring of sealant where it's most needed.

As has been discussed elsewhere on the forum, initially I drill the holes in the cabin top 2x original diameter (3/8" minimum) and cast in place epoxy bushings to seal the core, and to resist compression forces.

Optional extra fanatical steps: a.) try to not drill through the deck liner, so as to retain its original strength right up to the screw heads and washers, and preserve the original screw location, if that's important. b.) use a 3/8" circular saw bit in a Dremel to remove an additional 1/8" radius of core to create space for a larger cast bushing.

Tape over the bottom, refill with epoxy reinforced with micro fibers, then redrill to the final diameter. By using only fibers to thicken and reinforce the plug, the resin is free to flow between them out into the grain of the surrounding core, leaving a slightly higher density of fibers at that interface.

Least messy techniques for getting the thick epoxy in the holes, and not all over the deck include: disposable syringes, or dripping it off the end of a popsicle stick or cotton swab. The cotton swab can also be used to shove the epoxy out away from the center, into crevices. Stirring the poured epoxy with a toothpick, nail, or other stick can help release trapped air bubbles and encourage the thickened epoxy into small corners and recesses.

After initially filling each hole with epoxy, plan on making a second round about 20 minutes later to top up any which have receded further than half the thickness of the fiberglass deck. (A shallow depression just helps put more sealant where it's needed.) If planning to make that second pour from the remains of the first batch, epoxy pot life can be extended a bit by refrigerating the unused portion while the first pour soaks in.

If the cured filler ends up slightly domed, I carefully trim it flush with a drum sander bit in a variable speed drill motor.

Some may be thinking "Wait, how can you get the redrilled holes in exactly the right spot that way?"

On the first couple boats, I drilled the original holes in the handrail all the way through with a 6" long 1/8" bit. I then used those pilot holes to redrill pilot holes in the epoxy plugs. After the rails were installed, I filled the top of the 1/8" holes with a few drops of epoxy thickened with teak sanding dust, carefully shaved and sanded flush, then dabbed with whatever finish was used on the teak, so as to protect the epoxy from damage by direct sunlight. Someone a lot more fanatical than me could do all this fitting before applying finish, so as to include the pilot hole plugs under the first application.

On the most recent boat, I outlined the hand rail footprints on the deck with masking tape and a sharp knife point, and drew cross hairs for the original screw holes with a fine pencil. I then used those centerline marks to redrill the holes from the top, being careful to drill perpendicular to the deck. The existing screw holes in those particular handrails were already a bit sloppy from previous use, so accommodated very slight misalignment.

As for bending a curved handrail into place, I start on one end, inserting the screws in sequence, but not fully tightening until all are in place. This start all before tightening any sequence applies to all assemblies. Initially, I do a 'dry fit' for practice, and to install and trim masking tape on the cabin top. I use RTV silicon seal (bathtub caulk) sparingly. For something not advertised as an adhesive, it can have a heck of a grip.

One thing to consider is how to get the rails off without damage in the future. On one boat, the teak bedded with silicon seal actually cracked before the RTV let go. Since then, I've been coating the contact surface of teak with epoxy.

Another get-it-apart-later technique is to be sure the sealant layer is thick enough to drive a thin putty knife through, or saw with a thin wire, without tearing up the wood or deck.

This seems to be getting sort of long, so I'll stop here.

� Leon Sisson

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2019 : 20:11:24

Leon is, of course, the master. But to avoid longer-term adhesion issues, I use polysulfide (BoatLife Life-Caulk)--not silicone or polyurethane. Thickness helps, and to that end, I lightly tighten before the sealant sets up, and then tighten a few days later to compress the gasket that was formed.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

cat25
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USA
140 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2019 : 15:55:32

This forum is great. there is a world of information for our boats. I thank you all ken

Ken
Chenango~
1990~TR~WK~C25~#6022
Candlewood Lake, Ct

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