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But Will She Swim?

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pearson39b
1st Mate

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93 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/02/2018 : 15:36:57

A couple of years ago, I bought my 1978, C-25 SK pretty much in the blind. It had been donated to a charity so the price was right, but there was very little in terms of maintenance history and no contact possible with the previous owner. Since that time, it has been in covered storage, and while I have removed and refinished the brightwork, I haven't done much else, or spent much money on the boat though it clearly needs a lot of both. The portlights leak (a lot), the deck is badly weathered and it probably needs to be re-rigged. There's other stuff, of course, but these are the ones that look expensive and time consuming.

So, now it's time to fish or cut bait.

I finally have some time I could put into the project. I've been lurking this forum and I've pulled out some sources and DIY info that help convince me it's a worthwhile project to put her back into good seaworthy condition, but only IF she's fundamentally sound to start with. That's where the above question comes into play; How sound is the hull, or how much might I have to spend to make it so? I seem to remember some discussion here about possible leaks in the swing keel trunk, and currently there is additional discussion about components of the keel itself that may take a lot of time and expense to correct.

At this point, I'm planning to trailer her to a nearby lake and put her in the water to check for leaks. I'm assuming that should tell me if the trunk is watertight and if the keel at least goes up and down as it should. Hopefully the exercise might also yield additional information about the boat's condition, and that's why I'm bringing this post to the forum. Do any of you have any hints, suggestions or sage advice regarding how I should go about this, and what else I should be looking for? I've got a lot of experience on bigger boats, but not much with small, trailerable sailboats

Anybody?

Sailor Jerry
C-25 "Sea Song"
1978, SK, Std.
Pepin, WI

jduck00
Captain

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USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2018 : 16:08:19

One, its not going to be cheap. The most expensive boat is a free one. I've never sat down and figured out how much I've spent on mine because I don't want to know. I enjoy it and like all hobbies it cost more than its worth. It has been a worthwhile adventure.

Two, before you drop her in the water, check the tube and hose under the keel winch. I was in a similar situation, and mine was loose. Had I just dropped in the water, It would have taken on water real quick. I suggest leaving it on the trailer why you search for leaks so you can yank it right back out if you have to.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

jduck00
Captain

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USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2018 : 16:14:07

Also, check and make sure the keel winch will hold the weight. Mined failed while I was trying to load the boat on the trailer. There are some friction disks in the winch, and if they go it will slip. It was real fun getting it on the trailer with a bad winch.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2018 : 17:18:11

It's a worthwhile project if you'll end up using the boat.

I see you're inland. If it's been a freshwater boat, the standing rigging could be fine.

But how's the deck core? Solid, or soft, or soft in a few spots?

Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/

Edited by - sethp001 on 04/02/2018 17:23:52

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2018 : 20:16:56

Look at the bottom on the outside just forward of the keel trunk, and inside around the trunk, for cracks in the fiberglass. If you see any, they are likely the result of an uncontrolled keel fall due to a broken cable or winch problem (as mentioned above). Although it can happen just from hitting an underwater object that pushes the 1500 lb. keel up and then lets it drop. Cracks indicate the need for some serious examination and likely structural repair--the forces there are significant.

Catalina Direct has the kit for replacing the keel cable and attachments, and a replacement winch. The cable is a periodic maintenance item, where the period depends particularly on whether the boat is in fresh water or salt (almost regardless of whether it's trailered). Not knowing when your cable was replaced, I'd just do it. One keel fall will set your plans way back.

The pivot gear (pin and hangars) has more to do with the keel clunking in the trunk when you're under way--a lower priority I'd say.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/02/2018 20:21:39

pearson39b
1st Mate

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93 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2018 : 20:41:38

No disagreement on point one, Jeremy, and that's why I want to make sure she has reasonably good bones to start with. Point two is exactly the kind of information/experience I'm looking for. Just hope I can get her deep enough and still on the trailer to check that potential leak out.

The winch slippage is another potential problem I wouldn't have considered. Were you able to detect that by the feel of the winch, or not until you tried to put it back on the trailer? Also interested in how you resolved that issue. I can think of a couple possible fixes, but neither would be easy or much fun.

So far, I haven't detected any soft spots in the deck, Seth, but that's a good reminder to check further. Do I recall correctly that tapping with a light hammer might reveal swelling in the wood core?

This is a freshwater boat, so I guess I can downgrade some of my saltwater-based concerns on that count. Still have some nagging concerns about the unknown history of the standing rigging however. Hard to shake that one...

Thanks for advice on detecting trunk cracks, Dave.

Sailor Jerry
C-25 "Sea Song"
1978, SK, Std.
Pepin, WI

cudamank
1st Mate

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USA
55 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2018 : 07:40:43

Hi Jerry. I too purchased a boat from a charity, and although came with some documentation, it really has been a mystery to discover all of her secrets. This site is great for information, and the people will help with questions or suggestions. Sunds like a leak test is a good way to start. Might see if there are some other Catalina owners in your area, who you could meet up with at the lake, or even to just do some walk around the trailer and look.
Good Luck

1982 Catalina 25 SR FK
"Jenny"

Edited by - cudamank on 04/03/2018 08:07:06

jduck00
Captain

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USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2018 : 08:53:55

On the winch cable tube, I was able to spin mine out by hand. It was a very obvious loose. It had pipe threads that snugged it down into the hull. I used a whole bunch 5200 and screwed it back down tight.

There was no warning on the winch clutches going bad. I winched the keel up getting ready to motor over to the trailer and bam! The winch let go and keel fell 18" or so before it grabbed again. Got the keel as high as it would hold and still had another 30 degrees or so to go. Backed the trailer way into the water and gently pulled the boat out letting the keel fall onto the trailer. It was a real steep ramp or that wouldn't have worked. Also, if you ever get into that situation for some reason, have someone on the winch pulling the slack out of the cable as you go up. The water temp was way too cold for all of that nonsense, but we did manage to get it on the trailer.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2018 : 15:15:52

Also, this comes to mind... enjoyable if you have some time to waste, and liquor within reach...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdBkVRjEr4Y

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2018 : 08:01:06

One thing to keep a look out for, is that a leaking keel trunk (due to a keel drop) may not manifest itself until the keel is down and the boat heeled. When I bought my C25 years ago, everything looked fine. Neither the surveyor nor I saw any significant issue with the keel trunk from the outside of the hull, and while there was some "smudgy" fiberglass under the swing keel cabinet (or whatever you call it), the surveyor figured it was just lazy/messy fiberglassing from the factory. I was so infatuated with the boat by that time I was happy to believe it. Even when I floated the boat off the trailer the keel trunk still didn't leak. It wasn't until I lowered the keel, raised the sail, and heeled over that a hairline fracture opened up where the "smudgy" fiberglass was. Turns out that smudgy fiberglass was an attempt at a cheap band-aid repair by the PO.

Good luck! The C25 is a great boat and worth the effort if it's not too far gone. :)

Ben
Beneteau 361
Viking Kitty
Columbus, Ohio

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2018 : 08:57:34

Standing rigging is another item Catalina Direct has you covered on. First-quality stuff, fits like a glove, and includes bronze, open-body turnbuckles. I used them to do a full replacement about a year after buying the boat. Note that their full "kit" includes all but the backstay, ordered separately (single or split).

Another item we've discussed over the years are the cast aluminum spreader sockets. They can develop cracks, and if they break, you have a big problem. Some time in the 1980s Catalina switched to stainless steel--recognizable by being somewhat shiny with a weld between the tube and the base plate. My 1985 had them, as does Catalina Direct--as a kit with bolts, compression tubes, etc.

The last item I'll mention (for now) is the stem fitting, which before the mid-80s just bolted to the deck. We've seen pictures from when a participant had his ripped out along with a good-sized piece of deck--I think by a mistake with a travel-lift or something. By '85 Catalina had changed to a fitting with a tang that goes under the rub-rail and around 6" down the bow, with bolts through the bow. CD has the newer fitting with or without an integral anchor roller.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/10/2018 09:13:25

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1889 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2018 : 15:22:21

I consider the keel winch, cable, eye-bolt, clevis pin, hose, keel pivot hanger bolts, etc. to be consumable safety items replaced as preventative maintenance before they show symptoms of failure. If your old ones appear in usable condition, I suggest keeping them on board as spares. Don't underestimate how screwed you'd be if any of that stuff failed.

� Leon Sisson

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