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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

length & size of chain between anchor and rode

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jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/09/2018 : 09:18:34

I did a search, got some non-specific hits.
I am currently in Kentucky Lake readying to go south, Tenn River, Tenn -Tom Gulf Coast

specs for C25 say 5500 lbs, I estimate + 1000 lbs for the load for a total of 6500 lbs.

want to add a bow plow type anchor. I've read a minimum of chain = length of boat 25 feet then 3 part nylon line shackled to a plow type anchor, I'm thinking a 14 lb Lewmar fixed plow, shackle, 25 feet of galvanized 1/4" chain and 200 feet 3 strand 1/2" nylon.

I have a medium size Danforth 4' chain 150' line now and a smaller Danforth, 4' chain, 150 ft line as stern anchor.

questions am I correct in the specs for an additional plow? should the chain on the plow be bigger like 7/16" or longer? will these 3 anchors be the right stuff?

thanks for input & recommendations.

...jazz - James

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Bladeswell
Captain

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Response Posted - 02/09/2018 : 10:37:05

Hello James,

My boat is currently setup with 15' of 1/4 or 5/16 chain which if I remember correctly is right. You are right about the rode as nylon at 200'. Both of my anchors are setup this way. 25' of chain will provide a greater amount of holding power but may be overkill for a 25' foot boat in "normal" conditions. You may want to wait for others to reply as almost everyone here has more experience than I. Best of luck with your upcoming cruise.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3754 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2018 : 18:38:36

Lots of people have experience and opinions, but there is no real answer. Here is a partial list of rule of thumb recommendation that are commonly cited to show their inconsistency and lack of value:
1. 10-15 feet
2. waterline length
3. overall length
4. equal to the weight of the anchor
5. equal to your average anchoring depth

One well researched book on anchors and anchoring I read verified with an underwater camera that 25 - 30 mph wind will draw the chain taught and eliminate all of the catenary in an appropriate sized all chain on many sailboats regardless of sea state. Minimizing the the nylon abrading itself on the bottom and and enough chain to keep most of the nylon away from sharp things is good. Pick a number that makes you comfortable. I have 15 feet and wouldn't be really comfortable with 10, but there is no evidence supporting any of the general recommendations. I have 100 feet of rode and another 100 feet available for that rare occasion when I anchor in more than 10 feet of water. My little 14 pound Danforth has held me quite securely in 30 knots and 7:1 scope. Remember that scope is water depth height of the securing point above the water.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Edited by - Dave5041 on 02/09/2018 19:04:20

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3754 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2018 : 19:15:15

I have one other observation. My previous 21 footer had 5 feet of chain and 70 of nylon and it set quickly and I never dragged. The thing to remember is that a negative, not dragging in personal experience, is not proof of adequacy. Practical Sailor's number one bullet point in testing is to take all anchor tests with a very large grain of salt.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2018 : 10:06:13

Having been aboard a boat that was dragging her anchor, I can tell you I'd rather err on the side of not dragging.
That having been said, Snickerdoodle uses a ten pound Danforth anchor (good for the sandy bottoms at Lake Pend Oreille), 30 feet of one quarter inch chain, and 200 feet of half inch three-strand anchor rope. If the weather forecast is for conditions that this setup is questionable, I have a five pound sash weight that I can use as a sentinal that I can easily rig for extra holding. If you would like to see an explanation, see my blog and look at July 2012.
Bill Holcomb, C-25 Snickerdoodle , #4839
barnaclebillholcomb@blogspot.com/
If you are using Explorer, you may have trouble navigating to my blog... use firefox

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2018 : 10:48:05

All good advise, and as said their is no "one" correct answer. I would, however, check with people in your local sailing area as to what "rule of thumb" they follow. Local conditions can change which type of anchor, amount of chain/rope and size of same is best for that location. As an example, I carry two size/types of anchors which can be interchanged. My chain is 15' with 200 ft line, but I am in salt water (sand/mud/gravellyish mix) typically 10-20 ft anchorages.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2018 : 10:52:29

Bill and Peter thanks to both for the input i will check Bill's site and peter I apreciate knowing what works for all C25 sailors even those in CT. cause i may get there somdeay. ...jmc

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2018 : 10:53:58

FWIW (which isn't much), I think the length of the boat in chain is a useful (and the most common) minimum guideline. 1/4" hot-dipped (not eletro-plate) along with 1/2" twisted nylon is good for a 25' boat. It will help prevent chafing of the nylon on the bottom when the boat swings in wind, tide changes, or even movement in waves. It probably won't add much catenary in breezes strong enough to drag a well-set anchor the way all-chain will, so scope is still a significant factor.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2018 : 11:09:16

Another consideration is that a lot of chain can get heavy to haul in. Also consider what will fit in the locker.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2018 : 11:19:54

i have drug anchor more than once on various boats. so i appreciate all the input. i do worry about my 75 yr old back hauling in 25' of chain.
the other thing i am not sure about is the 14lb lewmar plow. the other plow i have used on the gulf coat was some yrs ago a Bruce on a 30' hunter ha fallen into some ill repute. ...jmc

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Bladeswell
Captain

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490 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2018 : 13:16:27

Hello Again,

I am pretty sure that 13-14 lbs is the correct or recommended anchor weight for our boats (@25') I would rather have a 15 lb anchor but I don't think its available from Danforth. but as far as anchor type, that is determined by the type of bottom. so best to check with locals to see what they are using in your area. I am in salt water and pretty much only anchor off Catalina Island and the recommended achor there is mostly a Danforth. (in normal conditions).

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

jmczzz
1st Mate

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92 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2018 : 13:25:29

Danforth seems to be very popular. but on the Gulf coast i see lots of plow types on boats. so do C25s not use plow types? my question was about having both available.

I suspect my ignorance is showing but at least i am persistant at asking questions.

thanks ...jmc

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Edited by - jmczzz on 02/10/2018 13:27:55

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2018 : 14:21:14

Hello Again,

While I have no personal experience with plow anchors, I have read that both CQRs and Delta are very good anchors. Best of luck in your choice.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

glivs
Admiral

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USA
822 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2018 : 16:25:58

I agree seek local knowledge. That said, it would be worth a few evenings cruising the Internet. There are many, many reviews of various anchors online both amateur and semi-controlled. In general, under ideal conditions the new generation anchors outperform previous generations, including CQR and plow anchors, but require a significant bow roller to function with boats our size. That said, some recent reviews attempting to consider real world situations (variable wind direction and speed) conclude that almost any anchor that is appropriate for the bottom will function well given appropriate scope.

If my budget would allow a new anchor right now I would look into the new Mantusanchors out of Kemah,Texas.

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2018 : 16:41:32

Hi Again,

If memory serves me correctly, You can do a search on youtube for an anchor test video shown from an underwater view. I would supply the link if I knew it. Sorry.
Also, I think Mantus was among those tested.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4275 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2018 : 17:46:05

quote:
Originally posted by glivs

I agree seek local knowledge. That said, it would be worth a few evenings cruising the Internet. There are many, many reviews of various anchors online both amateur and semi-controlled. In general, under ideal conditions the new generation anchors outperform previous generations, including CQR and plow anchors, but require a significant bow roller to function with boats our size. That said, some recent reviews attempting to consider real world situations (variable wind direction and speed) conclude that almost any anchor that is appropriate for the bottom will function well given appropriate scope.

If my budget would allow a new anchor right now I would look into the new Mantusanchors out of Kemah,Texas.

Hmmm, tested in my sailing waters and only a mile or so from my boat.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2018 : 18:08:40

If I were in a critical situation (high winds or breaking waves) I�d use two anchors angled at 60� or 90�. I�ve got maybe 10-15 ft of chain plus 200 ft of line on my Danforth anchor - which holds most of the time, but I�m a belt+suspenders kind of guy. I want a backup just in case the primary anchor fails. So then I�ll drop a 2nd plow-type anchor on a 200 ft rode.
If that didn�t hold, I�d quit boating and go home.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2018 : 19:52:13

thanks Capt. good info, ...jmc

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2018 : 10:22:14

Danforth, plow, claw, roll-bar,..... Each has advantages in certain types of bottoms (except CQR, the salty old favorite that just doesn't compete these days). Local knowledge helps.

In my C-25, I had a Danforth "lunch hook" in the anchor locker--not much chain--came with the boat. I added a 14 lb. Delta on 25' of chain and 200' of nylon that I kept in a nylon anchor duffle in a dinette locker below that I'd put through the forward hatch when anchoring overnight.

On my current $+!nkp*+, I have a 22 lb. Delta on a bow roller with 25' of chain (and an electric windlass), and a 7 lb. aluminum Fortress FX-11 (Danforth style) and rode bagged in a cockpit locker. The Fortresses are very light but outperform most of the heavier types in many independent tests--belying the assumed importance of weight. The fluke angle is adjustable for harder or muddier bottoms. The chain on mine weights three times the anchor, but chain isn't quite as "heavy" in water. That said, I have yet to use it in 10 seasons. (That windlass is wonderful, and the Delta hasn't let me down yet. If anything, it can bury to the point where I've had to drive around and pull it from the opposite direction to break it loose.)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/11/2018 10:28:03

jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2018 : 10:48:23

Capt Dave, thanks for the straight talk. I been thinking I would add a delta, chain and nylon. ...jmc

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3754 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2018 : 22:55:17

A real Danforth or Fortress, not a no name Danforth style, plus a Delta or similar would cover a variety of situations. P/S showed pretty conclusively that weight matters if you have very weedy bottom.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2018 : 04:18:40

thanks Dave, another few words straight talk response. jmczzz

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2018 : 17:14:18

quote:
Originally posted by jmczzz

Danforth seems to be very popular. but on the Gulf coast i see lots of plow types on boats. so do C25s not use plow types? my question was about having both available.

I suspect my ignorance is showing but at least i am persistant at asking questions.

thanks ...jmc

The Danforth style is popular on our boats because a Danforth fits in the anchor locker.

Your dual Danforths, if used fore and aft, are a pretty good setup.

Have you seen the Rocna anchors? Their performance for a single anchor is impressive. http://rocna.cmpgroup.net/original-rocna

Here's the Rocna sizing guide: http://rocna.cmpgroup.net/anchor-sizing-guide

Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/

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