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c25 bridle-rode-anchor rigging

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jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/02/2018 : 06:44:06

my 78 c25 has line cleats on both forward sides of the bow. when on the anchor with the rode on one or the other of these the boat swings from side to side some depending on the strength of wind and current. would rigging a bridle stop this? if so how is that done on the C25? or are there other options to steady her up at anchor?
thanks jmc

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2018 : 08:15:20

Boats swing at anchor for a variety of reasons, including, among other things, swirling winds and currents flowing through the anchorage.

Most commonly, the cause of it is the wind. Think of the boat's hull as a sail. When it's pointing directly into the wind, it "luffs." But, as the boat gets knocked about by waves or by swirling winds, it will eventually load one side and it will sail off until the force on the anchor rode overcomes it and brings it back through the eye of the wind and it sails off in the opposite direction.

If that's the cause, then a riding sail might be helpful.

I have heard of a different method that sounds very interesting, but I haven't tried yet. Set your anchor and rode as normal; then take an extra line and attach it to your rode about 5-7 feet off the bow with a friction hitch (prusik, Blake, or other suitable friction hitch; an ordinary rolling hitch might work), run the other end of the line back to something solid near the stern, such as your primary winch; then tension the line. The theory is that this will force the bow of your boat to be off-set from the direction of the wind forcing it to face in only one direction. This ia a variation on the technique recommended by the Pardey's for lying to a sea anchor.

However, if the cause of the boat's swinging is a current, rather than the wind, the only remedy I can think of is to set a second anchor off the stern.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2018 : 10:26:11

Most sailboats have more windage forward of the keel--the mast and elevated bow, for example, than aft of the keel. So wind tends to push harder forward, pushing the bow off to one side. A few folks here have tried variations of "riding sails" (you might use Search for that phrase) without much success as I recall. A riding sail is typically a triangle from a point let's say 4-6' up on the topping lift to the boom-end and forward on the boom. With the mainsheet tensioned, it provides some windage aft whenever the bow is pushed off to one side, and (hopefully) swings the stern back around so the boat doesn't "sail up" on the anchor. Similar things can be rigged off the backstay.

I think a rode bridle makes sense, since when the boat turns away from the wind, the bridle will pull on the leeward side, pulling the bow back into the wind. But I suspect the attachments would need to be a little further aft and wider apart than the bow cleats on the C-25 to have sufficient leverage.

Steve's suggestion sounds promising--with it, you'll tend to sail up toward one side of the anchor, but only one side, and perhaps will find a point of equilibrium where the boat remains relatively stationary. I might try it on my $+!nkp*+, where the high bow, cabin, windshield, and small keel (at right below) cause considerable sailing around the anchor. (You'd almost think I could go to windward on the hull alone.)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/02/2018 10:28:02

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2018 : 11:04:07

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

(You'd almost think I could go to windward on the hull alone.)

Actually, you can, or, to be more accurate, a sailboat can. When the wind blows on one side of the hull, it creates a lateral force on the keel, just the same way the sails create a lateral force on the keel. That force has to be released in some direction, and the direction of least resistance is forward, so the boat moves forward. Whether the force is exerted by wind on the sails or by wind on the hull, that force can drive the boat forward. The only difference is that the sails produce more driving force more efficiently than the hull.

I used to play around with sailing my C25 to windward under bare pole. I doubt that you could start sailing under bare pole from a dead stop, because I don't think the bare hull generates enough power to get it moving in the right direction. I would get the boat sailing to windward in about 12-18 kts, and then drop both sails. Instead of coasting gradually to a stop, the boat would continue sailing to windward indefinitely, and I could even tack back and forth to windward.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 02/02/2018 11:05:52

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2018 : 11:09:10

I have tried the bridal to center the rode and it did help a little but not much. I tried the Sailrite anchor riding sail and considered that a fail. Tried a second anchor off the stern but found it would rub and sometimes get fouled on the engine. What has worked for me is to anchor normally off the bow and tie the rode to the bow cleat. Grab the rode (between the cleat and anchor) and walk it back to the stern cleat. Put one loop around the cleat. The boat will be stern to the wind now and won't hunt, wiggle, swing anymore. If some unexpected weather should catch you off guard just take the loop off the cleat and the boat will turn and face the wind.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2018 : 11:16:07

quote:
Originally posted by islander

...What has worked for me is to anchor normally off the bow and tie the rode to the bow cleat. Grab the rode (between the cleat and anchor) and walk it back to the stern cleat. Put one loop around the cleat. The boat will be stern to the wind now and won't hunt, wiggle, swing anymore...

Nothing wrong with anchoring stern-to in a quite cove or small lake--you might get more air through the cabin. But it might confuse some folks anchored around you...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/02/2018 11:18:00

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2018 : 12:32:53

It also works very well in positioning the boat to get the afternoon sun out of the cockpit. With my Bimini sometimes the sun will be at the stern right in your face. You can use a mid ship cleat or the stern cleat to get shade back into the cockpit.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2018 : 15:19:37

thanks sailors for the rather salty ideas. I'll try them out and see what works for me best. using a stern cleat to quick release idea sounds good to me as I have often just committed the sin of using a stern anchor and found it stable and comfortable, even if I've dragged it a couple of times.
jmc

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2018 : 21:57:26

quote:
Originally posted by jmczzz

or are there other options to steady her up at anchor?

Another one of the forum's users intends to make a set of anchor riding sails similar to this product:

https://www.bannerbaymarine.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=25

We almost always anchor fore and aft like in the photo below. This works really well with Danforth-style anchors opposing each other.

Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/

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