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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Another post about the old thru-hulls

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odonnellryanc
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108 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/26/2017 : 15:53:22

Hey all,

So looks like my new boat has three thru-hulls. Two in the v-berth (one that looks like a transducer, who knows if it works) and one on the port-side of the boat, under the stove.

Interestingly enough, the one in the v-berth looks like a bronze fitting (with a flange), so not too worried about it, though I might replace it with a new fitting with a backing plate.

The one on the port side is definitely the classic "replace me" thru-hull we know all about.

This thing is really in there. I can't budge it. The fitting actually looks like it is in OK condition.

On the interior there is not a volcano of glass. It's more of a slight hill ... about an extra 2-3" of glass over a square foot area. I'd really have to dig this out to get to the pipe, which I'm not sure I want to do.

Exterior, well, here's a pic where I just spent a little time scraping away many coats of paint and grinding just a little into the pipe and glass: https://i.imgur.com/XRjnTP7.jpg

My question: would it be OK to just continue grinding down the exterior of the hull like I am, bringing it down probably another quarter inch to half inch, then filling the pipe with epoxy before I glass over it?

Do I really need to remove the pipe if there's going to be 1/2 inch to one inch of fiberglass over it?

I'll continue to try and remove it, but I'm wondering how had it'd be if I left it in rather than going insane with this thing.

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/26/2017 : 16:55:10

Is the pipe that comes through the hull PVC or plastic? Looks like it in the photo. I don't think Catalina used PVC.I believe they used a bronze pipe nipple. Also what year is your boat?

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 11/26/2017 17:25:11

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 11/26/2017 : 17:38:13

That looks like it could be a Marelon thru hull fitting with the outside lip ground off it.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

odonnellryanc
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Response Posted - 11/26/2017 : 22:32:29

No it is definitely copper/bronze. I did that small amount of grinding, the previous owner actually plugged it with a wooden dowel and epoxy.

islander
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Response Posted - 11/27/2017 : 07:36:36

To make this clear you want to seal this up and not replace it with another thru hull or valve. Is this correct? The pipe is bronze and is what Catalina used to make the volcano. They basically drilled a hole in the hull then used a threaded bronze pipe nipple slathered with sealant and threaded it into the hole. They then built the volcano out of resin and fiberglass up around the pipe on the interior side to give it a little more support. I think your PO had a leak or noticed the pipe was looking a little suspicious and did some repairs with resin inside and out in an attempt to fix it. He might have removed the volcano to do this and replaced it with his epoxy. That newer epoxy has a good grip on the pipe and is why your having difficulty removing the pipe. A photo of the inside would really help.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

odonnellryanc
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Response Posted - 11/27/2017 : 09:55:05

Yes, I don't want another thru-hill here. I'd only leave the pipe in as a last resort to having to dig through a few inches of glass :)

Wondering how bad an idea it is to leave the pipe in and repair. Maybe I can eventually get it out, but seems like a massive job.

I'll absolutely get a picture of the interior, but it looks like glass. Fairly sure it's at least 3" thick...!

islander
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Response Posted - 11/27/2017 : 13:00:14

Is any of the pipe sticking up above the volcano that the PO built on the interior? Something you could get a pipe wrench on or did he cut it flush with the resin.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

odonnellryanc
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Response Posted - 11/27/2017 : 14:35:41

There's plenty of pipe actually, but it won't move, not with the leverage I'm able to get in that space.

islander
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Response Posted - 11/27/2017 : 16:48:16

Ok, Possibly a different approach, Get a good drill bit larger than the outside diameter of the pipe and from the bottom drill the pipe out. Bronze is a soft metal. You don't have to go all the way up, Only to the top of the POs volcano. The pipe might even come loose before you get that far. Just an idea.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 11/27/2017 16:52:38

Bladeswell
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Response Posted - 11/27/2017 : 17:16:39

Hello Everyone,

When I found my boat still had the original Too-hull, I opted to remove it and fill the hole as well. I'm thinking the PO must have really laid in some Epoxy/Glass for it to come up to 3" Thick in that area. The hull thickness there is normally about 3/4" or maybe 1" thick. Anyway, I would use,(as I had to) a long deep 1" hole saw on a drill. And yes, mine was stubborn also but not a problem with this method. I wouldn't grind anymore on the outside but would use a side grinder on the inside to bring down the extra thickness to restore it to its original state. If you felt it necessary. Best of luck on your repair.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

odonnellryanc
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108 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2017 : 19:55:51

Larger bit is a great idea, will give it a go!

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 11/28/2017 : 07:22:09

I like the hole saw idea--just slightly larger than the pipe diameter. It might not reach the entire thickness of the mushroom inside, but that could be chipped/ground away. The advantage of the saw would be minimizing the risk of damage to the surrounding hull--you'll end up with a clean hole like the one the pipe was originally installed into, only slightly larger. If you were putting in a new thru-hull, that might not be a good thing, but for glassing in the hull, it might be best. Then taper the hole as described in the numerous "patch a hole in a fiberglass boat" articles.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/28/2017 07:28:36

Leon Sisson
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Response Posted - 11/29/2017 : 19:38:44

Polyester and epoxy are both thermoplastics. If you can heat the metal pipe to a few hundred degrees F, with the flame from a propane torch directed inside the pipe for example, applying twisting force with vice-grips or a pipe wrench while it's still hot, then it should break free.

Once the hot pipe has been twisted and wiggled around a bit, it should easily break free again after cooling down.

Just be careful not to set anything on fire. A second pair of eyes on the other side of the hull from you and a garden hose handy would seem a good idea.

-- Leon Sisson

� Leon Sisson

jduck00
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Response Posted - 12/10/2017 : 07:15:50

quote:
Originally posted by islander

Ok, Possibly a different approach, Get a good drill bit larger than the outside diameter of the pipe and from the bottom drill the pipe out.

I 2nd this. I drilled mine out from the bottom. A good metal bit will take the bronze out easy. The bronze pipe even keeps the bit centered nicely.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 12/10/2017 : 09:34:33

Exactly why I thought a drill bit might work better. It will self center in the pipe and should be long enough. He said he has 2-3" of a volcano on the interior, Add the hull thickness of @3/4" I don't think hole saws are that deep. Also a hole saw would be tricky to get centered without anything for the centering drill bit to drill into. Not saying it can't be done just more problematic to me.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

odonnellryanc
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Response Posted - 12/10/2017 : 10:08:36

Hey guys!

To give an update, hole saw did work. Hull thickness was just over 2" in this section, and yeah, it did bottom out the hole saw but I got through enough of the hull to be able to remove the pipe.

Glassed over the hull while it was still warm. I am going to fill the hole with some thickened epoxy, I think, in the spring.

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2017 : 15:26:12

quote:
Originally posted by odonnellryanc

...Glassed over the hull while it was still warm. I am going to fill the hole with some thickened epoxy, I think, in the spring.

I'm not sure what you're planning, but I'll offer the opinion that the hole should be repaired with glass mat and resin for the entire thickness of the hull, not just epoxy. There are reasons for the thickness of the laminate--you want a structurally sound hull, not a "cork" that can pop loose. Don Casey (This Old Boat and Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual)and others describe how to taper and fiberglass in a hole in the hull using graduated sizes of mat fully wetted to create the strongest bond you can.

Just trying to keep you afloat...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Bladeswell
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Response Posted - 12/11/2017 : 09:33:22

Hello Once More,

Glad to hear that you got it taken care of. I have "This Old Boat" by Don Casey and Dave is right. I think everyone should have a copy. And just F.Y.I., the 1" hole saw is available in extra long. I have one standard length and I think the other is about 3 or 4" long. Ace Hardware or True Value Hardware. To fill my holes, I wetted out cloth then rolled it up to fit snugly into the holes. Then after it hardened, I cut off the ends and ground flush to the surface, inside and out. Then finished off with the Don Casey method of graduated layers of matt. I believe I went 3 layers outside and 6 inside. Maybe overkill but I want no surprises while sailing if I can manage. Best of luck with your project.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

odonnellryanc
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Response Posted - 12/11/2017 : 09:43:39

I've done the external repair with 7 sheets of fiberglass, working in from an area of about two feet diameter.

However, that has left the interior of the boat without much done. There's basically a hole that's 1-2" thick (I put some epoxy in this hole when I did the glass).

I suppose I can grind this down with effort and lay quite a few sheets, but is this needed? I was thinking filling it with epoxy would do a fine job. With quite a bit of glass on the exterior of the hull I would not call it a cork! :)

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