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 Apologies to all POs
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bjoye
Navigator

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USA
105 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/17/2017 :  08:32:22  Show Profile
I’d like to formally apologize to my PO. In some of my previous posts, I was somewhat critical of previous work done to my boat. Now, I recently discovered that my PO was an active member on the forum about 10 years ago. After looking up all of his previous posts, I now have a much better picture on the history of the boat. I realized that we are all limited by skill, money, and time and are trying to do the best we can to maintain a rather complex machine. If we all had unlimited resources, we’d be sailing new a Beneteau, right? And not spending every hour of valuable vacation time covered in fiberglass and paint.

And to the next owner, who will be reading my posts +10 years from now, I plead for mercy. I’m new at all of this, even though I read, and studied, and got great advise from other members, I still manage to royally screw up multiple times. I'm sure you will find some of them. I’d always intended to come back and ‘re-do’ a number of projects, when I finished with more important items. Guess I never got around to it.

"Frayed Knot" 1989 C-25 WK/SR #5878

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2017 :  09:13:30  Show Profile  Visit OLarryR's Homepage
Well said !

There are so many personal factors involved with maintaining and in some cases, enhancing our boats. Even sailing, some go out infrequently, while others may sail 3 times or so each week. Some have other priorities, raising a family, work related issues, hobbies and other pursuits that take time away from working on that sailboat project one wanted to start and complete. Then there is the cost factors - Not only available resources but philosophical issues as to what one is willing to splurge on or cut corners out of a practical sense. One may opt to replace an 8 year old outboard which was working fine, while another will consider the outboard has just broken in and will run fine for years. The most obvious difference that one can see just walking down the main dock are those that meticulously maintain their wood trim and those that pay it no attention, are okay with the weathered look. Each can make the case for how they maintain their boats. One size does not fit all and many can provide rationale for their approach. But when current owner sees deficiencies, the PO usually takes the hit - right or wrong.

I am sure POs all thank you for the good points you have made.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html
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Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2017 :  09:16:17  Show Profile  Visit Bladeswell's Homepage
Hello Once Again,

I couldn't agree more and I have been guilty of the very same thing. We all do our best regardless of our skill level and with the very best of intentions. Some things will come out great and give you much joy and satisfaction. While others will end with disappointment with the end result and maybe resulting with having a professional rework or repair the work you did. Such is the life of a boat owner. I have owned my boat for two years now and though her restoration is always making progress and she is now in a slip and able to be sailed, I still see no end to the list of things that need to be done. Best of luck to you and everyone else on whatever project you are currently attacking.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2017 :  18:15:47  Show Profile
I agree with all you've said here. I was very fortunate to have Dave"Stinkpotter" as my DPO, and the guy he sold Passage to had her for less than a year and didn't do any damage as far as I could tell.
I've been watching "Sail Life", a weekly series on YouTube about a Danish SW developer guy named Mads who lives on a small boat and is working on a 42 footer named Athena that he plans to sail worldwide once he's finished commissioning her. The boat was a wreck! She had a teak deck that was screwed into the fiberglass decking with hundreds of SS screws, allowing moisture to seep into the deck core (foam and plywood), but also inside the hull which dampened the hull core.
His optimism and enthusiasm for DIY repairs is almost unbelievable.
He spends every weekend repairing and filming his work, and publishes his weekly show on Sunday night Denmark time, or Sunday afternoon my time.
His mantra is do the absolute best job you know how to do on any part of the project, but don't worry! The best part about DIY is if you mess it up, you can always redo it right, or at least better. He's made several attempts at drying out the hull and only when he bought a vacuum pump and a silicon heating pad was he able to get the moisture content of the hull down to an acceptable level.
He ripped the old teak deck up and cut through the upper layer of fiberglass one small section at a time, tore out the wet core material, dried it out and replaced the old wood with foam. He took off an old forward hatch and created a larger one and glassed in the frame for it. He checked on an American boat fixer-upper on YT to get good advice on other parts of the project.
He admits he's not a pro, just willing to put in the sweat equity. And if something doesn't come out perfect, he's willing to do it over. That's awesome!

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2017 :  19:59:47  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

...I was very fortunate to have Dave"Stinkpotter" as my DPO,...

So Bruce, what's the "D" stand for? Hopefully, Passage came to you set up better than she came to me, inside and out. If I were still down in Darien, I'd probably still own her. She was a fine little vessel that just kept getting better. (About now, I'm thinking a new mains'l... )

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2017 :  20:38:18  Show Profile
I don't know what the D stands for, but lo those many years ago when I snapped her up from the PO, you referred to yourself as the DPO.
By the way, when I score my Catalina 308 or thereabouts, I'll be happy to sell you this little gem at a fabulous, doorbuster price.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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jefferydfloyd
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2017 :  23:42:38  Show Profile  Visit jefferydfloyd's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

I agree with all you've said here. I was very fortunate to have Dave"Stinkpotter" as my DPO, and the guy he sold Passage to had her for less than a year and didn't do any damage as far as I could tell.
I've been watching "Sail Life", a weekly series on YouTube about a Danish SW developer guy named Mads who lives on a small boat and is working on a 42 footer named Athena that he plans to sail worldwide once he's finished commissioning her. The boat was a wreck! She had a teak deck that was screwed into the fiberglass decking with hundreds of SS screws, allowing moisture to seep into the deck core (foam and plywood), but also inside the hull which dampened the hull core.
His optimism and enthusiasm for DIY repairs is almost unbelievable.
He spends every weekend repairing and filming his work, and publishes his weekly show on Sunday night Denmark time, or Sunday afternoon my time.
His mantra is do the absolute best job you know how to do on any part of the project, but don't worry! The best part about DIY is if you mess it up, you can always redo it right, or at least better. He's made several attempts at drying out the hull and only when he bought a vacuum pump and a silicon heating pad was he able to get the moisture content of the hull down to an acceptable level.
He ripped the old teak deck up and cut through the upper layer of fiberglass one small section at a time, tore out the wet core material, dried it out and replaced the old wood with foam. He took off an old forward hatch and created a larger one and glassed in the frame for it. He checked on an American boat fixer-upper on YT to get good advice on other parts of the project.
He admits he's not a pro, just willing to put in the sweat equity. And if something doesn't come out perfect, he's willing to do it over. That's awesome!

I have been watching that show too! The guy is amazing... smart, optimistic, good natured... just recommended it to a neighbor by our slip who is in the midst of a refit



Jeff Floyd
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dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2017 :  04:16:20  Show Profile  Visit dasreboot's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Voyager


He ripped the old teak deck up and cut through the upper layer of fiberglass one small section at a time, tore out the wet core material, dried it out and replaced the old wood with foam. H



I did this , worked on a 36 cheoy lee for six years. I will NEVER fix a rotten deck core again. I learned the hard way. Its better to spend more in the beginning and get a boat you can sail. You'll probably spend less as well. I implore everyone to walk past the boat that needs major repairs. You'll spend less and ultimately be happier. Lest anyone make the statement that they derive great pleasure from working on their dream boat on the hard for years, i would say, I did too. I loved making plans and modifications. Loved what my new deck looked like when i finished. But sailing on the boat for six years would have beat that! Cant afford to put all the money down for your big dream boat. Get a loan. the payments will be less than the supplies you spend on the wreck. I did not keep track , and I'm glad i didn't. for the ~20k i spent, I could have had a nice sailing 30-35 footer, and been happier. Just my opinion, but also a warning from someone who has been there.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

Edited by - dasreboot on 08/18/2017 04:18:33
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2017 :  05:23:34  Show Profile
Todd, sadly your experience is not uncommon.
While I would NEVER take on a project like that now at my age, it's inspiring to see a 30-something year old doing it.
The guy's project plan anticipates finishing topsides in October-November, working on the inside during the winter and doing the bottom and the sail-drive next spring and summer. That's when he plans to quit his SW Engineering job and sail the world.
I'm learning a lot watching him.
Like a dear departed friend of mine used to say, "Hard work - I love it!
"I can watch people do it for hours!"
If you'd like to see it look to subscribe to "Sail Life" on YouTube.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 08/18/2017 05:25:42
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2017 :  05:35:51  Show Profile
But my main point here - back on thread - is that we as previous owners do the best we can on the things we believe are most important: safety, physical integrity, looks, overall comfort, utility, boat speed/racing and do a pretty good job on our secondary priorities and do a crap job on our lowest priorities. The next owner will likely have a whole different set of priorities.
The nice thing about boats is they're made of plastic, wood, metal (not stone) that can be worked on DIY mostly by us. If you don't fix it like Don Casey would, you usually get a second chance to get it right.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2017 :  06:12:44  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

I don't know what the D stands for, but lo those many years ago when I snapped her up from the PO, you referred to yourself as the DPO.
Well, on some other boards, that stands for "Damned Previous Owner". I figured I should probably admit I might not have gotten everything "right". Now it's been long enough that it isn't my fault any more!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2017 :  08:09:12  Show Profile
Ha! You're right.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2017 :  23:31:21  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

I agree with all you've said here. I was very fortunate to have Dave"Stinkpotter" as my DPO, and the guy he sold Passage to had her for less than a year and didn't do any damage as far as I could tell.
I've been watching "Sail Life", a weekly series on YouTube about a Danish SW developer guy named Mads who lives on a small boat and is working on a 42 footer named Athena that he plans to sail worldwide once he's finished commissioning her. The boat was a wreck! She had a teak deck that was screwed into the fiberglass decking with hundreds of SS screws, allowing moisture to seep into the deck core (foam and plywood), but also inside the hull which dampened the hull core.
His optimism and enthusiasm for DIY repairs is almost unbelievable.
He spends every weekend repairing and filming his work, and publishes his weekly show on Sunday night Denmark time, or Sunday afternoon my time.
His mantra is do the absolute best job you know how to do on any part of the project, but don't worry! The best part about DIY is if you mess it up, you can always redo it right, or at least better. He's made several attempts at drying out the hull and only when he bought a vacuum pump and a silicon heating pad was he able to get the moisture content of the hull down to an acceptable level.
He ripped the old teak deck up and cut through the upper layer of fiberglass one small section at a time, tore out the wet core material, dried it out and replaced the old wood with foam. He took off an old forward hatch and created a larger one and glassed in the frame for it. He checked on an American boat fixer-upper on YT to get good advice on other parts of the project.
He admits he's not a pro, just willing to put in the sweat equity. And if something doesn't come out perfect, he's willing to do it over. That's awesome!



Why pay someone else to screw it up when you can screw it up yourself?



Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/
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sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2017 :  23:32:42  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by bjoye

I’d like to formally apologize to my PO. In some of my previous posts, I was somewhat critical of previous work done to my boat. Now, I recently discovered that my PO was an active member on the forum about 10 years ago. After looking up all of his previous posts, I now have a much better picture on the history of the boat. I realized that we are all limited by skill, money, and time and are trying to do the best we can to maintain a rather complex machine. If we all had unlimited resources, we’d be sailing new a Beneteau, right? And not spending every hour of valuable vacation time covered in fiberglass and paint.

And to the next owner, who will be reading my posts +10 years from now, I plead for mercy. I’m new at all of this, even though I read, and studied, and got great advise from other members, I still manage to royally screw up multiple times. I'm sure you will find some of them. I’d always intended to come back and ‘re-do’ a number of projects, when I finished with more important items. Guess I never got around to it.



Amen.



Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/
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slim
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2017 :  13:43:25  Show Profile
Yep it's the same old story. I want to get this boat and fix it up and sail the world. Great Dream! Think again! Most of us are going to be lucky just to own a boat and sail it as much as we would like. Life is just to full of distractions for most of us to fulfilled that dream. I recently went through this very hard decision myself. Owning a beautiful C25 that i restored in about a year and half and enjoying it immensely, i found a cheoy lee 25 frisco flyer that i fell in love with at a price that was unbelievable. Just needed some restoration work! Let me tell you it almost did me in, turning away from that dream, but i knew that it would be the end of my sailing if i bought that boat and started the restoration. At 67 you don't have that much time left to dream or sail. As i once read the best boat to go sailing in, is the one you own now and if you don't own one, be sure to get one that you can go sailing in today!

Slim

1978 - C25 - standard rig - Fixed keel #1040
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