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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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My anchor riding sail. What do you think?

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dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/23/2017 : 14:22:28

My friend took his MacGregor out in the remnants of Hurricane sandy. Blew all his sails. He threw them in the dumpster. I recovered them and cut down the Genoa to make this.hopefully this will stop the sailing at anchor. I'll try it out tomorrow. Planning to see the fireworks up the river, and anchor out.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2017 : 15:29:42

I tried the one from SailRite. You Hank it to the backstay then tie the forward clew off to a stanchion so the sail is on an angle. The results were that the boat sailed up the anchor line on one side sometimes even passing the anchor. I certainly didn't have confidence in the anchor holding like this and took it down. I never tried it again so I would be interested in your results. I did have better results in taming the hunting by using a dock line to create a bridal for the anchor line. The bridal centers the anchor line. Go from one cleat, around the anchor line making a knot that I can't think of the name right now, then to the other cleat. Adjust the bridal to center the anchor line. It was a lot better but not great.

Edited by - islander on 06/23/2017 15:47:47

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2017 : 07:17:04

Passage will ride at anchor in moderate to strong winds. I haven't seen any kind of stay sail or small sail aft that will prevent this.

Normally it's not a problem if other boats are not nearby but for fireworks things get so tight with a lot of boats that you're almost better off rafting up. I was in an anchorage one overnight with a rock face about 50 feet to starboard. I decided to drop a second anchor in case of overnight wind shifts. Held fine all night

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 06/24/2017 08:02:54

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2017 : 08:43:54

What am I missing here? (Picture, description,...?) I'm curious...

From what I've seen, a riding sail should be totally centered as far aft as possible--it's common to use the backstay or topping lift tying off forward on the boom, or even to the mast. An angle will definitely work against you--you want the boat to be held "in irons". The main culprit causing the problem is the mast, which pushes the bow over, at which point the hull becomes the "sail". The best solution might be a yawl rig with the mizzen sail up and hardened (maybe with a reef).

Another thought is a beach towel or something tied to the stern rail in such a way as to create a sort of parachute, pulling the boat back against the rode. Maybe it could be canvas or sailcloth with some proper grommets for attachment--maybe several sets of grommets to allow the size to be reduced in heavier winds...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/24/2017 08:58:10

Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2017 : 09:48:41

I do what Bruce suggested to you. I drop a stern anchor w/ chain and tie her off. Works fine. Chief

COMPASS ROSE C250WK
Tall Mast, Wing keel
PORT CHIEF, Bodega Bay Ca.
IE,EE,FCC lic #1890

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2017 : 12:50:13

I once anchored in the lee of an island to spend the night while a strong wing blew. All was well until about 2am when the wind clocked around and we were no longer in the lee with the boat now hunting the extremes at which it would slam us against the hull and prevent sleep.

Leaving the anchorage in pitch dark with a strong wind blowing wasn't an option (or at least a good one) so after some thought, I poked out of the V berth where we slept and made a large double bowline in the anchor rode so as to form a bridle and secured to each of the bow cleats. When the boat started on a tack, it was checked by the bridle.

Went back to sleep with no more problems. In the morning my wife asked, what I'd done and finished with a thank you.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224

N/E Texas and Great Lakes
Arlyn's Sailing Site

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2017 : 14:09:49

Arlyn's solution left me a little puzzled, since my C-25's bow cleats were very close to each other and the bow. So I looked in the gallery, and behold--the C-250's cleats appear at 1-2' further astern, with chocks at the bow for an anchor rode. I assume his "bridle" omitted the chocks, so as the boat would try to sail up on one side, the line to the opposite cleat would pull the bow back over.

Brilliant! But probably not as effective on the C-25. And I do recall being on a mooring in a 50+ mph squall in our C-25, with a pennant to each bow cleat. We still did a lot of dancing around the mooring ball!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/24/2017 14:17:10

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2017 : 15:37:12

What am I missing here? (Picture, description,...?) I'm curious...

From what I've seen, a riding sail should be totally centered as far aft as possible--it's common to use the backstay or topping lift tying off forward on the boom, or even to the mast. An angle will definitely work against you--you want the boat to be held "in irons". The main culprit causing the problem is the mast, which pushes the bow over, at which point the hull becomes the "sail"

The idea is to keep the nose pointed to one side. The problem I found with centering the sail (Yes I tried it) was that the boat still will swing although a little less but the sail gets very noisy every time it fills, Flogs then refills. Fwap, Flutter Flutter, Fwap.
https://sailrite.wordpress.com/2013/09/12/how-to-use-an-anchor-riding-sail/
Im not a fan of dropping a stern anchor unless you get it far astern, I've often found that eventually with wind shifts the line will get hung up on the rudder or motor or worse yet find yourself abeam to the wind when the wind shifts. I did find an interesting way of dropping a second anchor off the bow with a short scope to drag on the bottom. Might work better than off the stern without fouling.

quote:
The hammerlock moor ) is a technique that�s hard to beat if your boat is horsing about in gusty winds. It consists of dropping a secondary anchor on short scope beneath the boat�s bow � the primary anchor continues to take the brunt of the load, but the boat�s horsing will be dampened by the secondary, which also reduces ground tackle strain considerably. During substantial wind changes, this secondary anchor will likely drag to a new position relative to the wind shift. Relax. It�s all part of the master plan of drudging, the intentional dragging of an anchor. Once settled in the new position, it�ll continue to operate as before.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 06/24/2017 16:55:31

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2017 : 20:01:56

Well it did not work so well. Being a sail it had to much draft and would cause the boat to sail over its anchor. It was light winds though.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2017 : 05:19:13

Sounds like you had the same results I did. It got worse as the wind increases. My boat would sail up 90 deg to the anchor. Very disappointing. I might try the second anchor off the bow next.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2017 : 16:52:52

I set the anchor tie another line to the rode with a rolling hitch, let out a little more rode, and cleat the second line on the opposite cleat to center the pull. I works well for me.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

csmcg
1st Mate

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96 Posts

Response Posted - 12/26/2017 : 01:33:34

I tried the sailrite riding sail kit on my wk-250 and it worked really well. The boat stayed much more aligned into the wind and forces on the ground tackle were reduced significantly.

Regards.

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 12/26/2017 : 13:40:46

Todd, if you have a split backstay, maybe you could try making a second riding anchor with the same dimensions as the one you've already made. Then rig them between the end of the boom and your split backstay, like in my fancy diagram below. I think this would keep the boat from sailing. (Edit: ignore the periods in the diagram - I had to put them there because the forum won't let me insert extraneous spaces.)

End of Boom
........|
......./.\
..... /...\
...../.....\
Split Backstay

Also, I recommend what Bruce and Chief mentioned about anchoring. We always anchor fore and aft. Symmetrical anchors, like Danforths, hold best when directly opposed.

Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/

Edited by - sethp001 on 12/26/2017 13:43:05

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2017 : 04:41:31

This will be the next one i try to make. ill probably do it this month.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2018 : 23:32:07

quote:
Originally posted by dasreboot

This will be the next one i try to make. ill probably do it this month.

This is looking like a Mainsheet article...

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