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Installing a capstan winch on cruiser deck - PICS

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dmpilc
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Initially Posted - 01/16/2017 : 15:18:55

Has anyone on this forum installed a capstan winch (windlass for anchor rode) on a cruiser foredeck? I am about to attempt it on our yacht club's race committee boat, an old Marinette cabin cruiser with an aluminum hull and the foredeck also appears to be aluminum. We snaked the wiring around bulkheads today from the battery compartment to the bow. It looks like we will need to remove a plywood headliner inside between the forward hatch and the bow. I've got a 1/2" starboard piece to use for a deck plate between the deck and the winch housing and a 1/4" starboard piece for a backing plate under the deck. Seems like that should be enough deck reinforcement. Any particular potential pitfalls to be aware of?
The wiring is marine grade 8 awg as specified in the instructions, 25 feet long. We might be able to shorten that 1-2 feet depending on final routing. Should we be concerned about voltage drop at that length?

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Edited by - dmpilc on 02/12/2017 19:27:14

islander
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Response Posted - 01/16/2017 : 17:09:48

Don't know about the wireing but do you have a large enough compartment with a drain for the rode to pile up in? A windlass doesn't usually make a nice neat coil.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 01/16/2017 : 20:51:12

Not a problem here. Deck surface only. The winch drum is horizontal with a foot switch, and the operator will manually tail the winch. Brand is PowerWinch and the model is the Capstan 300.

http://www.hodgesmarine.com/Powerwinch-Capstan-300-Anchor-Windlass-p/powp77726.htm?gclid=CNSE7r6jyNECFcUdgQodeKAD6Q&ppcstrkid=1565162769&click=19&ppcsclkid=lLCXcUpbKH9E&ppcsu=xhg7f5djqeniramsegdoh

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Edited by - dmpilc on 01/16/2017 20:52:29

islander
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Response Posted - 01/17/2017 : 06:33:03

From the specs it uses 25amps. 25ft of cable run x2=50ft. I think the 8 gauge is undersized. A way around this is to use heaveguage wire from the battery to a bus bar under the deck close to the switch then use a short length of the 8 guage lighter wire from the bus bar to the switch. You can minimize the voltage drop this way because the lighter wire is a short run and will have very little if any voltage drop and you avoid having to work with a large heavy cable when making the connection to the switch. Here's a chart on wire sizing for lengths of run. You could use the 8guage if you dont mined a 10% voltage drop.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 01/17/2017 06:36:32

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 01/17/2017 : 21:02:04

Thanks, we'll check the voltage before hooking it up.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Voyager
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Response Posted - 01/17/2017 : 21:13:55

The voltage will be okay before you hook it up @ 0 Amps.
Once you hook it up and run the winch, that's when you should measure the voltage as close to the motor as possible. Wouldn't be surprised to find a 2V drop so the motor voltage should read about 10V. Using the formula for power, the wire will be dissipating 2Vx25A or 50W. Hopefully the wire's insulation is rated for 100�C (not that it will get that hot).

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 01/18/2017 : 15:12:02

Thanks, Bruce. The 8 awg wire was bought at a marina service/parts shop so it should be marine grade, connectors too. If the voltage drop is enough to cause damage to the windlass or concern, then I will buy larger gauge wire for most of the run. Hope I won't have to, that 50' of 8 gauge wire was $100 plus tax!
The boat has two identical 12 volt marine starting batteries connected to an Off-1-2-Both selector switch, and both batteries are connected to a charger that can handle 2 batteries when plugged into shore power. I think there is a way to run larger gauge wire forward to the bow, then connect the 8 gauge wire for a shorter run to the foot switch and the short leads coming out of the windlass.
I'm guessing that both wires should be made larger, if at all, not just the positive wire, right?

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

islander
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Response Posted - 01/18/2017 : 17:00:52

You bought 50ft of single wire? You could and probably should have been better off using 25ft of 8 guage Duplex wire. It's just easier to run and is protected with the outer cover. Yes to the both wires being the same guage.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 01/18/2017 : 19:48:47

Actually 25 ft of red single wire and 25 ft of black single wire. Didn't think about duplex wire, foolish me, nor did the clerk at the marina. Running the 2 wires was actually easy, lots of gaps in an old cruiser. Using a straightened shirt hanger, I snaked a messenger line from the battery box under the helm station, up the bulkhead holding the wheel to the corner of the aft bulkhead for the head at the outer hull where there was an opening, ran the messenger line along the plywood liner just below the deck, through another corner gap in the forward wall of the head into the main salon. Using the messenger line, I was able to pull the first wire through and taped the second wire to the first about 4 feet back to pull it through, (the corner openings were too tight for all three at once), continuing along the space between the plywood liner and the deck up toward the bow.
If I end up having to get larger wire, I'll use both wires to pull them through.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Edited by - dmpilc on 01/18/2017 19:51:55

islander
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Response Posted - 01/19/2017 : 05:47:11

David, Don't forget to put a fuse in. I would guess a 30 amp would work.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 01/21/2017 : 20:26:55

The winch came with a 25 amp fuse that connects directly to the battery terminal. I dry-run tested the circuit today with a temporary connection to battery 1 and the winch on a table. The current drop at the end of the 25 ft cable run was only 2.5-3% while the winch motor was running, dropping from 13.04v to 12.97v. Of course, there was no load on the winch. Battery 2 in the bank was showing 13.31v, so we might do the final connection to that one.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Edited by - dmpilc on 01/21/2017 20:28:21

Voyager
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Response Posted - 01/22/2017 : 10:59:14

Anything more than 12VDC at the motor end under load should be fine. Sure, when the motor is under strain you'll know it by the sound and you'll probably smell it too. Obviously heavy gauge copper wire, especially "marine quality cable", is costly. How much was the capstan winch?

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

islander
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Response Posted - 01/22/2017 : 13:29:01

Just curious but I don't think it handles chain, I suppose if the rode has chain you will have to stop it and haul the chain and anchor by hand though it wouldn't hurt to try it even if you need to pull some to give it some assistance.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 01/22/2017 : 15:37:54

The winch retails for over $500, got it on sale for about $470. I spent about $115 0n the wire and my budget is $800. I know that it does not handle chain, which is only about 10-12 ft of the total rode and is okay as we do not have a smooth spliced chain to rope connection in the rode. We will have to educate club users to stop before the chain gets to the capstan drum, probably stop before it goes over the bow roller. We will also have to educate users to not use the winch to free the anchor from the lake bottom, only to use it to raise the anchor after it is free. Pray for us on that one!
We found that the deck of the boat has 2 aluminum I-beams running fore-to-aft under the deck, one of which is, of course, right where I intended to drill holes in the deck. Going to Plan B, which didn't exist until yesterday evening after I got home! My plan now is to make a bridge on deck using a 14"x14"x1/2" Starboard platform resting on two, possibly three legs, each 14"long x 2"wide x 1"tall Starboard straddling the 2 I-beams and bolted to the deck. Cost of materials is about $70-$75 plus additional SS hardware. Still under $800 total! For additional support, I'll add on top of the platform the 1/2" thick piece of Starboard that was going to go between the winch and the deck. I'll use the 1/4" starboard backing plate I made under the platform in lieu of the 3rd leg if possible.
If the current under load drops below 12v, then we will look at replacing 12-15 ft of the 8ga awg marine grade wire with something thicker.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Edited by - dmpilc on 01/23/2017 10:36:25

dmpilc
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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2017 : 16:57:13

Got the capstan winch windlass mounted yesterday, but forgot to take pics. Got a board meeting out at the marina tomorrow, will take pics if not raining. Still have thew foot switch to mount and the wiring to connect. It is sitting on the originally cut 1/2" thick Starboard mounting plate sitting on a 14"x14"x1/2" Starboard platform, resting on two 14"x2"x1" feet. Under the winch and platform is the originally cut 1/4" backing plate to give the platform a little more rigidity. The two "feet" have 1/4" thick Starboard backing plates inside the boat. It is secured to the deck by four 1/4"x 3" SS bolts and fender washers. That should hold it.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Edited by - dmpilc on 02/27/2017 21:44:53

dmpilc
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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2017 : 21:35:24

Went to FL 2 weekends ago to sail in the St. Pete NOOD Regatta, then got sick coming home. Been down all week. Got the windlass wired up today and preliminary test run went well. Still trying to work out the photo problem.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

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