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Motor (Re) Mount project

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bjoye
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USA
105 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/12/2016 : 09:42:06

We finally finished remounting the engine mount. Previously, we had the 2 spring motor mount. With a Nissan 9.8 (93 pounds) engine with starter, raising the motor required extreme strength.

We purchased the 4 spring mount from CD thinking this was going to be a simple project... WRONG!

First, a drunk money installed the previous mount. The mount holes went ever which direction, and to seal it, it was buried in a sea of 4200 sealant. There was a thin sheet of aluminum as a backing plate, modified extensively trying to line up the crazy bolt holes.

After detaching the old mount from the transom (which hydraulic jacks), we scraped, razored all the old sealant off.

I epoxied the old holes with West Systems 105, and re drilled. One note: use the West Systems 206 or 207 as a filler, not raw epoxy. 2 of the holes leaked out down the interior back of the transom.

I used a portable drill press to try to align the holes properly.

We also, bought the mount backing rails from CD. Unfortunately they didn't fit a 89 (see picture). I used a 'Whiz' Wheel to cut one down to size and cut one in half. That metal is hard and thick. Don't think you can do it with a hack saw alone. Also bought the CD mount bolt kit. It works perfect.

The new motor mount rails sit slightly off the back of the transom, touching only at the top and the bottom of each rail. The transom is not flat at all. Don't know if this was caused by distortions of the previous mount without proper backing.

To seal, used a large SS washer between the mount rail and the transom surface, with butyl tape around the mount bolt in the same manner as reseating deck hardware. Worked perfect.

The motor now pops in and out of the water with ease. At 93 pounds we could have gone with either the 3 or 4 spring option. The cut off is 95 pounds.

A lot of work, but really happy with the results.

"Frayed Knot" 1989 C-25 WK/SR #5878

WesAllen
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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 12/12/2016 : 11:11:04

Ironic that some projects by POs can make you POed.

Wesley Allen
"Breaking Wind"
1982 C-25 SR/TR/SK #2773
Hemlock, MI

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/12/2016 : 13:51:20

I thought the Garhaur mounts were installed by Catalina. I can't see them messing up the holes. Maybe the mounts were installed by dealers?

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

bjoye
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USA
105 Posts

Response Posted - 12/12/2016 : 14:51:41

Could have been a dealer or PO. The motor is from ~2004. The original mount looks older. Some of the old holes had been enlarged at some point, either at installation or due to vibration and/or a loose bolt. The "custom" backing plate really says it all. The wiring was also wrong. 10 AWG with a 12 ft run from the battery. Must have glowed red when starting the motor.

btw: correction to original post, make that west systems 406 or 407 for the filler additive.

"Frayed Knot" 1989 C-25 WK/SR #5878

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2016 : 05:22:25

My Cat is same year as yours. I changed out my 2 spring to a 4 spring back in 2005. Similar to you, I also ordered the CD backing rails and found that the holes did not line up, same as your experience. I wound up substituting a piece of Starboard to add a bit of reinforcement. The holes for both mounts lined up and my transom did/does not appear distorted/curved. In any case, now that your project is done, you can sit back and enjoy the improvement you made !

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2016 : 17:08:02

Amazes me that 11 years later the rails still don't have the correct hole pattern. I'm sure more than one person has complained after they received them and they didn't fit.

I mean really, how hard is it to change the hole pattern!

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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2016 : 17:43:43

Drill press is a handy tool.

Frank Hopper

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2016 : 17:53:21

Gary, I think Larry's mount holes lined up perfectly. It was the backing rails that didn't. All the same you would think they would get them the same.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 12/14/2016 17:55:44

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4275 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2016 : 19:36:59

Sorry I wasn't clear. I was referring to the backing rails.

Drill press is a handy tool but when you pay for something 11 years later there has been plenty of time for them to correct the issue and you shouldn't have to use your time and resources to correct it. Drilling holes in a backing rail isn't rocket science.

If they're not going to take the time to correct something this easy to correct and they expect their customers to deal with it why not just provide the rails with no holes at a highly reduced cost (or free) and let the customer drill their own holes?

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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

WesAllen
Navigator

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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2016 : 22:50:06

Gary, I was just thinking the same thing.

Wesley Allen
"Breaking Wind"
1982 C-25 SR/TR/SK #2773
Hemlock, MI

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2016 : 04:37:34

It is kind of interesting that the backing rails do not match up and these were made out of stainless steel. I guess I could have drilled new holes and believe I would have had to shorten at least one of the rails as Bjoye did. I just did not want to cut thru the stainless, so I wimped out and went with starboard which did not add much to the stiffening but anyway, made me feel a bit better that I was doing something.

My mount holes lined up perfectly. I do not understand why that is a problem on some boats if the existing and replacement mount were both Garhauer. I guess it is possible if there was significant transom distortion, the bolt holes passing thru the transom would be slightly angled out and so then perhaps that would be enough of a reason why the holes would need to be enlarged.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2016 : 11:22:09

Interesting: When I bought my "new" Garhauer four spring through CD in 2008, the bracket mounts all were properly aligned -- no drilling necessary. Are their different models and possibly they shipped (repeatedly) the incorrect brackets?

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Edited by - bigelowp on 12/15/2016 11:35:51

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2016 : 13:56:22

quote:
Originally posted by OLarryR

It is kind of interesting that the backing rails do not match up and these were made out of stainless steel. I guess I could have drilled new holes and believe I would have had to shorten at least one of the rails as Bjoye did. I just did not want to cut thru the stainless, so I wimped out and went with starboard which did not add much to the stiffening but anyway, made me feel a bit better that I was doing something.

My mount holes lined up perfectly. I do not understand why that is a problem on some boats if the existing and replacement mount were both Garhauer. I guess it is possible if there was significant transom distortion, the bolt holes passing thru the transom would be slightly angled out and so then perhaps that would be enough of a reason why the holes would need to be enlarged.

If I read it correctly, the holes matched on the outside, but were not drilled perpendicularly so that they would match up inside. I would think Catalina had a jig for doing the holes for Garhauer mounts, unless they were shipped loose and installed by the dealers. Then all bets are off.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/16/2016 06:44:06

Digger
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2017 : 15:06:35

Thankfully, I did not run into any of these problems when I upgraded with the four spring mount and found that all four spring were too much lift. So I used a lever and let one spring be a slacker. The motor is not too heavy for me, yet. I can see the fourth spring in the not that distant future. :)

Steve Digby
1983 Catalina 25
Standard Rig
Fin Keel

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2017 : 17:40:45

Yep, If your going to upgrade the mount, I always thought you might as well get the 4 Springer. It gives you the option to pop one spring off if needed then put it back on in the future if needed for a new heavier motor or the springs start to loose some tension without having to upgrade again.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

capted
1st Mate

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39 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2017 : 13:53:14

I just got my new 4-spring mount from Catalina Direct. I opted for the 4 spring mount for my 95 lb motor, assuming its easier to remove a spring than add one. I won't know until the spring how it works with the new motor.
However, I did buy the (heavy)backing rails, and the holes match up exactly with the holes in the motor mount. Maybe there is a problem with an interference with the hull and the backing rails, but the holes are OK. The backing rails are something like 1/8 inch SS, so cutting or drilling them will be a big job.

Ed

dmpilc
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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2017 : 09:18:57

Like Larry, I used Starboard, 1/2" outside and 1/4" for the backing plate inside.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2017 : 16:06:33

Just got my 4-springer installed with the CD backing plates. Wasn't too difficult. Did have to slightly drill out one of the holes. It it took about 3 hours including going to WM. Should make lifting the new motor much easier.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

Good Times
1st Mate

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45 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2017 : 18:20:28

Looks like a good install.
Have you tried to push it all the way down to the second locks? I find it a challenge with my 9.8 Tohatsu to apply enough force to get it d o w n. just curious.

Andy Kohler

C25 #6012 TR WK
traditional layout

16ft Hobie Cat
23.5 Hunter

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2017 : 18:41:27

Not yet, we'll find out soon enough.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2017 : 18:43:17

How difficult is it to pop a spring off? If it for sure will be difficult to lower, I would rather do it now
Before the motor goes back on

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2017 : 05:11:22

Dave, It's not hard at all, I would put the motor on first to see how it is but to pop a spring loose it has to be in the up position to remove most of the tension. Use a large screwdriver and wedge it between the spring and tube then just pry it off the tube. It will recoil about 1/4 turn. I would do the one that is next to the transom on top. Looks like that is the easiest to get to since your in the water.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 03/19/2017 15:51:37

WesAllen
Navigator

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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2017 : 14:21:11

Ditto Andy, But it sure comes up nice and easy. Haven't tried to unhook a spring yet.

Wesley Allen
"Breaking Wind"
1982 C-25 SR/TR/SK #2773
Hemlock, MI

pfduffy
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2017 : 06:58:25

I have the 4 spring mount and the Tohatsu 9.8 and I cannot get it to its lowest position (which has not really been an issue.) If I pop off a spring, will it rattle?? Has anyone tried this?

Pat Duffy
1984 SK/SR #4113
Slàinte

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2017 : 08:42:25

quote:
If I pop off a spring, will it rattle??

Good question but if it does you could just put a zip tie on it.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2017 : 09:17:56

They sell the same basic mount as a 2,3 or 4 spring depending on weight of your outboard. Since the Tohatsu weighs a lot less thaa a Honda, I could see why it is very hard to get the 4 spring mount into the lowest position. Even with the Honda, I basically stood on the outboard to eventually get it into the lowest locking position and then left it that way for a week to see if the springs would relax a bit..which they did. I can get my 4 spring into the lowest position but when I want to release it, I have to press down slightly on the handle with my foot. This has also eased a bit thru the years. I installed my 4 spring back in 2005 and it has worked well up to and including the present.

Since they sell the same basic mount with 3 springs, if you can get one of the springs off, I doubt it would rattle since they sell it that way as well. (I am not sure which spring they do not install when sold with 3 springs.)

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 03/20/2017 10:31:42

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