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Thoughts on this boat?

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ryank020
1st Mate

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53 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/13/2016 : 19:32:48

Found this boat on my conquest to upgrade from my 22 to a 25. Somewhat familiar with the 25 based on my 22 ownership. Both SK.

Spoke to the owner and the furling headsail has one year on it and the main three, so sails in good shape. Keel cable never replaced to his knowledge.

I think I would replace the o/b with a more reliable long-shaft. Anything else to keep an eye one. Obvious are leaking Windows, stanctions, thru deck fittings (rotting bulkheads). Do 25s get soft spots on decks like 22s? Also would check all rigging.

Anything else to keep an eye on? Thoughts on price?

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/boa/5780927265.html

1984 Cat 25 FK/TR #4687

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3367 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2016 : 05:18:59

The big ticket costs that one needs to be aware of and assess, if needed, when buying a boat, some you have already considered. Knowing what those costs are and then deciding to go ahead with the boat purchase, can actually be very rewarding as long as the fixins do not become a stress based on the added cost. The good news with realizing you may need to buy a new outboard is...that having planned on it along with the boat purchase, a new outboard is an improvement and one that you will enjoy every time it starts up and runs flawlessly. Having relatively new sails to start is a big cost saver. Swing keels and not ever having the cable changed out on a '79, sounds like the cabling system would be wise to address to ensure trouble free operation for years to come. As far as soft spots on the deck, I have read of those that have had issues on Cat 25s but I am not sure just how widespread this is as an issue. Any leaks via the mast column, etc if not squared away could probably over many years be a concern regarding the deck integrity, but I have no real experience with just how frequent deck issues become on Cat25s.

You mentioned about std rigging but not the condition, which is sometimes hard to assess except perhaps by a professional. Obviously, if a close examination of the std rigging fittings indicates any cable deficiencies at the point where the cable enters the fittings, then chances are the rigging will need to be replaced sooner rather than later. If the boat has been used in seawater vs freshwater, the air environment is more corrosive to the cable connections (stress/corrosion prone regions). Some say that std rigging, especially on boats in seawater environments, should be changed out every 12 years or so, though, I suspect many let the rigging go for say 20+ years and my 1989 (used for past ~14-15 years by PO and then I in freshwater and seawater before then) may have had about 23 years of use on the rigging before I had the rigging replaced a few years ago.. You should ask the owner if he or if the PO before him ever changed out the std rigging and when.

Have you checked out the hull/bottom ? Any blisters ? A few blisters is generally not an issue especially if small. But if there are a lot of blisters or what appears to be very large blisters, then you may want an experienced marina or mechanic person to check it out. Most Cat25s are not prone to blister issues or the blisters are mostly cosmetic (in the paint or not that many in the gel coat). if there are blisters that go into the laminate, then they can be a structural/integrity issue and may grow significantly in a few years. My Cat 25 had blisters and they became significant with each passing year. It came to a point that I had to make the decision to have them removed and then have the bottom waterproofed. This happened about 4 years or so ago and I decided to go for the repair work and waterproofing the bottom with Interlux Interprotect. Turns out the blisters were indeed into the fiberglas laminate and they were sort of blisters on top of blisters - Approximately 1/3 of the hull bottom had laminate grinded off and then relaminated. This was a very expensive job !! But I sail frequently each year and now it is at least 4 or so years since I had that work performed and I am glad I did it. Once again - I have heard that blister issues are not that frequent a problem on a Cat 25....but best to check out the bottom before making the purchase.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 10/14/2016 05:28:58

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2016 : 06:45:01

That's one of the first C25s I sailed on. It was lovingly maintained by the original owners until they moved up to a bigger boat. I don't know who bought it or how it was maintained later. Until then, it was sailed only in fresh water, and the photo appears to have been taken on the same lake.

Blistering was always a minor concern until about 1984-1989. Boats built before or after those years had few significant problems.

All boats can have soft decks, if the hardware isn't kept well caulked. Soft decks can be repaired by a DIYer, but some people would rather sail than take on the job. That's your choice. Soft decks should significantly reduce the price.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 10/14/2016 11:19:21

ryank020
1st Mate

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53 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2016 : 08:09:20

Thanks guys.

I have not seen the boat in person, so I have not checked for blisters. I had read that they were not a common problem on 25's. I know my 1985 22 was never bottom painted between the factory and when I got it three years ago and had no blisters (and was kept in a slip year round). Think that speaks to the robustness of the process Catalina used.

Larry, boat is on Brookville. Saw you are in Kettering, so I would assume that was the same lake you sailed on! The current owner said he purchased it for his father, but had to buy his father a FK 25 because he couldn't crank up the keel to get into the slip (not sure where you actually have to do that on Brookville?-father is in his 80's so I think it was his capability versus an issue with the system) I'm assuming this boat has lived on Brookville its entire life then, so a freshwater only boat.

I'll likely go take a look at least and see what is up. Next step is to get the wife on board!

1984 Cat 25 FK/TR #4687

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2016 : 11:03:11

Construction of Brookville Lake was completed and the lake was opened in about 1978. I started sailing there in about 1979. I liked C25 #1399 so much that I bought one new in 1981 and sailed it there for 23 years, until I retired.

All the crazy boaters in the Cincinnati-Dayton area used Ohio lakes. I found that the boaters at Brookville Lake (both sail and power alike), just across the state line in Indiana, were mostly sane, and nice. The early sailors at Brookville Lake loved to socialize, race, sail at night, swim, picnic, party, etc. It was a great place to relax and take the kids.

I left there about 15 years ago, but the last time I checked in with them, they were still calling a high hill at the northwest corner of the lake "Milby Mountain." Tacy, the Cincinnati sailboat dealer, certainly remembers it, but most of the current crowd at the lake probably don't.

I loved Brookville Lake so much that I once thought I'd like to have my ashes scattered there for eternity, but now I think the Chesapeake Bay will eventually be my choice.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2016 : 14:27:05

quote:
Originally posted by ryank020

...Next step is to get the wife on board!

The best thing I did for my wife was to have new interior cushions made right away, replacing the brown plaid Herculon originals and the slightly mildew-scented foam. We went thicker (except for the seat backs), added upholstery batting, and picked a linen-like Sunbrella upholstery fabric. Not cheap, but she loved it! So I got to add a few non-essential things...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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1736 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2016 : 18:23:18

Steve:

Just had to say your post tugged at my heart. It is such a wonderful thing when you find a special place, great people, and the right boat to enjoy it all with. I believe we all have places like "Brookfield Lake" that we cherished forever. . . . . .

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2016 : 06:57:43

quote:
the brown plaid Herculon originals

and to think that at one time somebody at Catalina thought that looked great. Boy, times change.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2016 : 08:51:57

quote:
Originally posted by islander

quote:
the brown plaid Herculon originals

and to think that at one time somebody at Catalina thought that looked great. Boy, times change.

The sure do... Now "brown furniture" (e.g. mahogany, walnut, etc.) is totally out, as are colors of any sort other than white, gray and black. My living room is a decorator's nightmare!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

ryank020
1st Mate

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53 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2016 : 15:58:22

It's funny the things I care about are good sails, nice bottom, solid deck, good rigging, etc. The first two things my wife said were "does it have an enclosed head" and "those cushions have to go!" Funny how it is.

Steve, I have certainly heard good things about Brookville. I'm at Rocky Fork now and considering moving for the social aspect. I know Steve fairly well...sail a bit with his son. I'll mention Milby Mtn to him and see what he has to say!

1984 Cat 25 FK/TR #4687

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2016 : 20:54:47

quote:
Originally posted by ryank020

...The first two things my wife said were "does it have an enclosed head" and "those cushions have to go!"...

The answers are:
1. Yes
2. Yes Dear!

Check out some automotive upholstery shops--that's who did ours--beautifully. Be prepared to be in the $2K neighborhood. But I suspect from her point of view, it will become a whole new boat!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/15/2016 21:00:10

OrovilleTim
1st Mate

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USA
25 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2016 : 13:55:53

On price... I've see a lot of $3,800 on Craigslist all over California. Mine sat for a long time at that price and nobody took it. I even passed on it myself at $3,800. I was thinking it was about a grand too high and didn't want to insult the seller by offering that and I'm very glad I didn't. It turned out with boating season coming to a close and facing being stuck with an off-season of slip fees I got a call back from the seller telling me that if I wanted it I could have it for $2,000 (I was one of the few recent folks to look at it that wasn't trying to trade something for it.) I feel I got a "good deal" with newish CD sails, furler system, rebuilt Nissan 6.6 long shaft, clean interior. Issues were one leaky window I fixed the other day after the first big rain, two marelon valves froze (replacements provided for free by Forespar,) some dead light bulbs, and that forward leaning mast I posted about. I feel I got a "good deal" but not a "steal". After shopping for sailboats for some time I kept seeing the same ones and it made me realize they don't seem to be selling well and/or people don't seem to have money and made me feel that people probably wanted to sell me their boats more than I wanted to buy them. I'd definitely say it's more of a "buyers market" right now (especially end of season for most of the US) and that my impression (as a buyer, not a seller) is that it's priced a bit high if he's a motivated seller. But I'm a newb and my experience is only as a buyer not a seller (though I am selling a Lido 14 in great shape with two sets of sails that nobody has even inquired about at $800 OBO ready to drop it again.)

C-25 #89 - Dos Kilo$, 1977 SR/FK/"L" Interior
Tim & Nikki, Lake Oroville CA USA

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2016 : 04:43:30

As far as estimates for replacing cushions, I am presently investigating that. Outside/exterior cushion replacement is in the $500 - $750 price range depending on upholsterer and if closed cell w/no cover versus denser foam and cover. I have one estimate semi-local for replacing exterior and interior cushions including 2 addl interior cushions that make up my extended bunk but since the foam is okay on all the interior cushions, the interior foam would be steam cleaned and re-used or for a bit more cost, replace the foam as well. Approximately $3600 for ext and int cushions (re-using stm cleaned interior foam).

At the boat show, Island Nautical from Florida was there. They supply all cushions for the new Catalinas and are located blocks away from Catalina in Florida. Their exterior cushion quote was approximately $520 and I am awaiting the entire quote for interior and exterior cushions. I also noticed that the Catalina (Mfr) website, Parts Dept, will provide quotes for replacing all exterior/interior cushions on used Catalinas but I suspect they are having Island Nautical make them up for them.

I am curious as to the cost of the cushions from Island Nautical. Based on a quote for the exterior cushions, they seem competitive with local upholsterers. My concern with going with them is that while they have all the used Catalina's cushion dimensions, I would not have the same dialogue that I could with a semi-local upholsterer that can come down to my boat, take measurements and discuss interior options. Also, the shipping costs would be considerable versus locally, I could avoid shipping costs.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2016 : 07:08:06

Hello Again,

Yeah, my boat still has the yellow/brown plaid looking upholstery. And like you, the Admiral also said that has to go. And I agree but that has been pushed to the back of the list. Just too many other projects with a higher priority. I did check with a local marine upholstery shop and he also said $3000 ballpark. Good sailing all.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2016 : 07:38:34

quote:
I am curious as to the cost of the cushions from Island Nautical. Based on a quote for the exterior cushions, they seem competitive with local upholsterers.

I have been to their store/showroom a few times. Most of the items on display look to be very good quality. Please post your experience with the quote when you get it. I will be replacing the cushions on the interior of the Gemini soon. Not because of the color, but the foam is a very cheap quality.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2016 : 07:41:13

I'll add that while I can't say I got my whole "investment" back including the new interior cushions, I do believe it was a significant factor in the instant, near full-price offer I got from the first couple who came to look at Passage about 18 hours after I listed her here seven years later--no sea trial, no survey, half down on-the-spot. They were downsizing sailors, they'd seen enough other boats, and they were obviously trying to hide their excitement! (Bruce Ross bought Passage from them not long afterward, due to some health issues.)

But then again, Passage was about 22 years old by then--not 39...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/18/2016 07:46:19

JamesBird
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2016 : 15:53:17

For those of you with any sawing experience, check out the Sailrite youtube videos on making and recovering your own cushions.
https://www.youtube.com/user/Sailrite1/videos

Jim

Jim
Danvers, MA
79 Cat25/SR/SK/(1185)

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2016 : 21:32:18

Meaning "sewing" experience? The "sawing" part is done with a hot wire or laser.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2016 : 08:06:11

I had bought fabric on Ebay, but sold the boat before having the cushions recovered. The buyer found a lady who reupholsters sofas, etc. working from home and got her to sew the cushion covers for significantly less than a commercial shop. Maybe there is someone like that in your area.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

JamesBird
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2016 : 11:01:32

yeah, should be sewing

Jim
Danvers, MA
79 Cat25/SR/SK/(1185)

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.