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What is this hardware on my boom? Follow on

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MrKawfey
Navigator

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USA
124 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/16/2016 : 06:09:27

This question is different enough that I thought I would start a new thread.

Our boat is rigged for reefing just like Seth showed in his thread. However I was possibly hoping to simplify a bit and wanted opinions before I did.

This year I added a better outhaul (no pictures yet) which consists of a pair of very small fiddle blocks between the boom end and the clew. One has a cam cleat for the line. What I did however is added a snap shackle to the sail-side block and a Dyneema soft shackle to the cringle in the sail. I also added another soft shackle to the rear reef cringle.

This means I can quickly move the outhaul to the reef clew and get good foot tension when needed. I also added a reef hook to the gooseneck as was shown in another recent thread.

So the question is, since the reefing line doesn't need to tension the foot of the sail, can I just use a simple sail tie like the three middle reef cringles? Can I get rid of all the extra boom hardware?

Thoughts? Also, I wouldn't strip the boom hardware until I tried the new setup a few times, however, we don't reef the main very often.

Chris
Sacandaga Lake, NY
1984 C25 SRSK
"Les's Moor"

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2016 : 07:00:20

Nobody reefs the mainsail very often, but when you do, it's under very trying, stressful circumstances (unless you always reef at the dock and never under way). When you reef under way, it should be as easy as possible.

I tried using an S-hook on the outhaul for the aft reef cringle once on Lake Michigan, on my C22. To reef, you have to lower the main halyard. The effect of that is that you don't have the mainsail helping to drive the boat to windward. When I tried it, a gust of wind or a choppy wave smacked the bow, and the boat bore away from the wind. The wind caught the half-raised mainsail and drove the boat to leeward and caused it to heel. I eased the mainsheet to reduce the pressure on the sail, and the boom end extended out over the gunwale farther than I could reach to attach the outhaul to the reef cringle at the end of the flailing boom. I was hanging precariously over the lifeline, holding on with one hand and trying to get the S-hook in the reef cringle with the other. I never succeeded, and gave up trying because it was too dangerous.

The systems that are provided by the manufacturer are functional. My advice is to stick with the recommended system, without any significant alterations that might reduce it's ease of use when it's needed.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

offshoreaccount
1st Mate

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USA
71 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2016 : 08:46:10

Great story, but seems to miss the point. OP is looking to simplify, which would make it easier to use...

Offshore Account, 1977 Hull #243. SR, SK

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2016 : 09:06:21

Steve seems right on point. Simplicity in a reefing system should be directed toward simplicity of reefing under duress--building winds and seas, heeling, and need to control the boat. Having to reach the leech of the sail can become the issue Steve experienced. And the C-22 has a larger, wider cockpit and, I suspect, a shorter boom than the C-25. The standard 2-line system, even if not led back to the cockpit, puts the reef-clew line within reach, forward on the boom, even with the boom out a little to luff the main. (I liked the three lines, halyard and reefing, led to clutches on the cabintop.)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2016 : 09:08:30

quote:
Originally posted by offshoreaccount

Great story, but seems to miss the point. OP is looking to simplify, which would make it easier to use...

It doesn't miss the point. He's thinking about "simplifying" his system in substantially the same way I tried it, and found it didn't work in the real world. If this was a really good idea, everyone would be using it, and boat builders would be using it because it uses less hardware and is cheaper to install. It isn't easier to use in the real world.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2016 : 09:12:46

Hello Again,

Just my two cents, but I thought Steve did make a valid point. If you loose control of the boom's position as in his story, how would you be able to lace in a clew tie down out there at boom end ? Where as if the reefing setup is a more conventional one as pictured and explained in the first thread, the reefing control line would have been located at least in the middle of the boom and possibly even closer to the mast and thereby being accessible and still usable even with the boom all the way out. I have to agree with Steve on this one. Good sailing everyone.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

MrKawfey
Navigator

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USA
124 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2016 : 10:54:36

Some great points, thanks. I hadn't really considered wrangling the end of the boom in while trying to reef. I can see the advantage of having the reefing line accessible at the mast.

Any thoughts on whether being able to better tension and the foot of a reefed sail would be worth the effort of trying to connect the more powerful outhall at the reef cringle?

Chris
Sacandaga Lake, NY
1984 C25 SRSK
"Les's Moor"

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2016 : 11:26:07

The turning block that comes on the starboard side of the C25's boom with a reefing system is placed so that it pulls down and aft on the reefing line. That pulls the clew out to give the reefed sail a flat shape. That's really all you need for a 25' boat. Considerably bigger boats have a winch mounted on the side of the boom that can be used to tension a reef line. I don't think more mechanical advantage is necessary for a C25. If you think about it, when you tuck in a reef, the mainsail is lowered halfway, and it's luffing, because you have eased the mainsheet. Thus, the sail is not under load, and you should be able to easily pull the reefing line and grommet down to the boom.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2016 : 12:15:35

When I reef I usually start the motor, Turn up into the wind and reef the sail. It gives you all the time you need and avoids the situation that Steve had. With the sail reefed, Kill the motor and resume your course. I am guessing Steve was racing so using the engine wasn't an option. Having to reef with the sails loaded and the boat heeled is way more difficult.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 08/16/2016 12:20:52

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2016 : 10:55:05

quote:
Originally posted by islander

I am guessing Steve was racing so using the engine wasn't an option.

I wasn't always a racer. That was when I was young, inexperienced, on my first fleet cruise, and learning things the hard way.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Sailynn
Navigator

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USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2016 : 21:07:34

no matter what setup you have you should heave to when you reef. The boat is in a neutral position and the boom is inside the cockpit. no headsail, head to wind with mainsheet in, drop sail, reef, raise sail. the first one should be practiced under sail in light or medium winds. practice the mainsail only at the dock or while sailing.

Lynn Buchanan
1988 C25 SR/WK #5777
Sailynn
Nevada City, CA

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2016 : 22:15:25

quote:
Originally posted by Sailynn

no matter what setup you have you should heave to when you reef. The boat is in a neutral position and the boom is inside the cockpit. no headsail, head to wind with mainsheet in...

That's not really hove to. You heave too by back-winding the headsail and easing the main, so the boom isn't necessarily reachable from the cockpit. Going head-to-wind is fine, but pretty much requires power to hold the position and maintain steerage against the wind. That's why leading everything forward, and ideally (in my opinion) back to the cockpit, is important. In worsening conditions, not having to leave the cockpit is a great advantage.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

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