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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Capri 25 Specific Forum

Capri 25 sails

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terry908
Deckhand

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USA
1 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/16/2016 : 19:26:41

I had to replace my jib last year. My boat was competitive until I changed out the sail now I am in the very back of the pack. How important is it to have the jib and main be matched. My main isn't in the best shape so I am looking at replacing it also but because the performance fell off so much with the jib replacement, I'm reluctant to use the same sail maker as I used for my jib. My quandary is do I replace both sails with a different sail maker or can I expect to see a step m[rovement with just a quality main?

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2016 : 18:37:59

It's likely not the sail, but rig tune. Each manufacturer that designs for any boat, designs it for a specific rig tune. If you don't have a rig tune guide from your sail manufacturer for the boat, sadly they likely just cut a sail to fit the dimensions...

While I am sure you don't wanna hear this now, but I can think of at least 3 manufacturers that have rig tunes for the Capri 25 on their websites (I won't name names)...

However, the one I know that actively tunes/races the Capri 25 is epsails.com.

The rig tune from epsails, is going to be different from Quantum, or North, or Doyle, etc.

So to answer your question, YES the new sails probably require a different rig tune than your old sails, that does not mean either are poor sails. Because you have sails from different manufacturers, you now have to find a tune yourself that works with them both.

The Capri 25 is a masthead rig, and is driven heavily from the headsail. You wanna carry as much headsail as you can get away with, even with the mainsail bubbled up and not driving. Weight to flatten the boat of course.

The Capri 25 also likes a LOT of rake.. typical is between 8 and 16" of rake. My old (original) sails liked 8" of rake the epsails liked 12" of rake which was right at the minimum according to epsails.

Also you need some prebend in that mast... typical of that boat is only about 1 inch. Keep in mind the backstay doesn't really "bend" the mast, but instead takes the sag out of the forestay. Run with more sag in light air, and less in heavy...

Jib/genoa car placement is cruicial too... make sure your new genoa lies correctly along the hull of the boats shape, and evenly outside the shrouds, both at the spreaders and by the chainplate.

Don't be afraid to add toggles to the max forestay length to get rake that you need. Keep in mind too much rake will cause the boat to round up hard and quick when overpowered... You can mitigate that of course with more outhaul, and more main halyard (and more backstay etc.).

I know I'm probably spewing the obvious stuff, but I'm really trying to give you a checklist.

I WILL tell you though that if your mainsail is bagged out, it can act as a brake behind the slot of even the most perfectly shaped headsail. You can more easily determine if that's what's happening, if you flatten the heck out of your main behind a slightly baggy genoa... and you get terrible stalling when your top batten is parallel with the boom (properly trimmed and upwind).

C&C 32 Smith Mountain Lake Virginia

joearcht
Navigator

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USA
236 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2016 : 06:04:05

Good post shnool!
If you ever come South for a visit I want to take you sailing (and pick your brain on C25 trim) lol.

Joe W Hiller Jr
1985 Capri 25
Hull #433

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2016 : 07:03:31

If you still have your old jib and it's still usable, try sailing it in a race, and if your boat returns to it's former level of performance, it might be the sail. I had to buy a discount jib once, when I was temporarily cash-strapped, and it's shape was so bad that I rarely used it, and continued using my very old North jib.

Of course, the problem could also be rig tuning, but you have to explore all the possible causes. You should also probably contact your sailmaker and ask if the sail was designed for a specific sail tuning plan, as schnool suggests, or whether it was designed merely to fit the rig dimensions. If the latter, or if it's just a poorly shaped sail as mine was, it's possible that a skilled sailmaker can re-cut the sail for better performance. This year, North reshaped a bagged racing jib for a friend of mine, and he claims it restored it to competitive level.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Fleet
Navigator

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USA
151 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2016 : 09:02:33

When I acquired my Capri, the sails were not matched and in poor shape. With funds limited, I purchased a UK tape drive 155 genoa and I think a Sobstad mainsail. Both were used but in great condition. Neither sail were cut for the Capri. The Capri did alright during the next racing season. I then bought an EP 155 genoa and it was like putting on a turbocharger. Even with the mismatched Mainsail, we won all the club races that season. If you can only afford one sail right now, go with a Capri specific 155 genoa. That will give you the most gain for the buck.

Fleet
Kamikaze
1983 Hull #397
Lake Guntersville, AL

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2016 : 17:09:02

Steve and Fleet got you covered. I was trying not to sound like an EPSAILS mouthpiece, but honestly, for the Capri 25, its hard to beat them.

I myself had such a dramatic difference between my ancient sobastad (an obviously great brand) sails and also my north (undisputably also a great brand) that was also tired, when I went with my epsails, that I learned something critical to racing sails... buy a complete set (over OD time allowances and size), make sure they are matched with a specific tune in mind.

I liked the EPSAILS so much I'm purchasing my S2 sails from them as well. Mind you the "fleet sails" to beat in S2 realm are "Doyle Boston," and so far I'd say I can hold my own, or best them at least to my own abilities. I'm against 3rd season Doyle Boston sails, with ONLY my mainsail having been replaced from epsails, and a 4 season old Doyle Boston genoa. I think I'm drastically mismatched in rig tune, but the fact that in a drag race (nothing changes but trim), I can keep ahead, tells me these sails are at least AS good.

Ok the cut of that genoa might be bad, but it'll be hard for us to tell.. So play some with rig tune and report back maybe we can help you sort it out.

PS: I defer to ANYONE racing out at WYC, who can easily trump my advice here...

C&C 32 Smith Mountain Lake Virginia

johngfoster
1st Mate

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USA
34 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2017 : 12:22:31

When's the next sale on EP sails for the Capri 25, LOL?

John Foster
1983 Capri 25
Hull #380

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2017 : 18:52:45

Every fall. Call Harry P, he'll give discounts if you buy multiple sails.
Really the best thing for the Capri 25.

C&C 32 Smith Mountain Lake Virginia

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.