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Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/27/2016 : 04:54:36

Hello Again,

Could you tell me what size and length of docking rode you guys are using..? My guess is half inch nylon rode at about 15 feet and I assume I will need 4 of them. Thanks again.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2016 : 05:48:00

Depends on your setup. What's around the boat in terms of docks, cleats, and pilings? Floating dock, or fixed? Ideally, you would have fore and aft "breast-lines" that hold the boat away from the dock, and on at least one side, fore and aft "spring-lines" that hold it from moving forward or backward. Twisted nylon is best--it will absorb some shock from waves (including boat wakes). Half inch is a little fat for the cleats on a C-25, and will not absorb shock as well. In preparing for a big storm (?), you're better off doubling up the lines than having fewer huge ones.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/27/2016 05:54:51

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2016 : 06:17:26

I use 7/16" docklines on my 13,000 lb. C&C Landfall, and they have held it through hurricanes and tropical storms. 3/8" Sta Set has a breaking strength of 5100 lbs. One strand of it is enough, at least minimally, to lift the entire weight of your boat. If the boat is tied up with 4 or five strands, with 2 or three strands that are at times sharing the load, and most of the weight is supported by the fact that it's floating in the water, then 3/8" should be ample. If you double the lines for a hurricane, then, if one line chafes and breaks, there's still another line to take up the load.

The length required depends on the size of your boat slip. If the slip is designed to accept bigger boats than yours, then longer lines will be needed. If the slip is smaller, you might be able to use shorter lines. In either case, you will probably need one line that is somewhat longer than the others. That will be your spring line. The length depends entirely on the dimensions of your slip. I suggest you look for a boat in your marina of similar size to yours, in a similar size slip, and use his dockline lengths as a guide.

If you use the shortest possible lines that will fit your slip, they will probably be too short when you are cruising and stay in a transient slip in a different marina. Therefore, if you plan to cruise away from home, choose somewhat longer docklines and carry extra lengths of line, so you can lengthen them if needed.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2016 : 07:27:07

Ok so I'll probably get some flak for this but I am in a slip at a marina so the cleats on a C25 are for 3/8" line. Anything larger won't fit through the center hole in the cleat. I get bulk 3/8" twisted nylon from HD and make my own with a Bow knot on the end. My dock lines are permanently attached to the dock so I make them the length I need. One forward, One aft and one spring line that is attached to a sliding center cleat on the T track. Those dock lines held up to Sandy and are still going strong. Now I know I probably committed a faux pas in dock line etiquette but they work. I also carry on board some 25ft lines for tying up at other destinations.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 06/27/2016 07:36:23

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 06/27/2016 : 07:49:19

No cause for flak. You're using the right size line, they're long enough for your needs, they're strong enough for a hurricane. That's what's important.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2016 : 08:11:33

Hi guys,

Thanks again. I will be going to look at a slip in the next few days. That's why I wanted to ask. So I will get 3/8 not 1/2. I don't currently have any mid ship cleats, but I will soon if I get the slip. So for now, I only have the for and aft cleats. When I go to check out the slip I will take a tape with me so that I can take some preliminary measurements. Thanks again.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2016 : 08:17:18

I would also add that if you are the type that takes his dock lines every time you go out I would suggest minimum of 25ft. If you are ever in a bit of a jam trying to dock and find yourself 10-15ft from a dock but a nice dock hand says to throw a line you will be glad for the extra length. You can drop a loop over the winch for a spring line if you don't have a center cleat just don't tie one to the stanchions. Another alternative is to run a line from the aft cleat on the boat to a cleat somewhere in the middle of the dock an then to the bow cleat on the boat.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 06/27/2016 08:28:29

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2016 : 08:27:12

Like the others have said, it will all depend on the configuration of the dock and the surrounding circumstances. When I kept my C25 at my home dock on a calm canal I used five lines. My current boat, the Gemini catamaran in this photo, is in a marina and is not as protected from waves and boat wakes. With the configuration of the dock I currently use eight lines:

With the way I have it tied off it cannot come into contact with any of the pilings.

Also, like mentioned, I never remove these lines from the dock and carry another set of ten for visiting other locales.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

Edited by - Davy J on 06/27/2016 08:38:03

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2016 : 09:06:12

Back again,

Everyone seems to agree that for your permanent slip it is best to leave the dock lines there and carry extras for else where. I read in a single hander's book that this method is also best for docking single handed. Thanks again.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2016 : 09:42:08

Yep, And to make docking even easier set up fenders on the dock and leave them there also.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3367 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2016 : 09:58:01

I believe my double braid lines are 7/16" diameter. I think that is the max I could get thru the center hole on the finger slip cleats. My lines are left on the dock and my fenders are also set up permanently on the side of the finger slip using SS wire and turnbuckles strung between the forward and aft cleats on the finger slip. Short 6"-1' lines attach the fenders, hung horizontal/parallel to the slip to the SS wire. I have additional lines, long lengths, and fenders with adjustable line locks in my dumpster for when I go to other marinas, etc. When I use those fenders, I attach/adjust them, held vertically, with the line locks to the lifelines.

I am on a floating dock/finger slip. I back my boat into my slip with boat's starboard side against the finger slip. I really do not need a spring line but I use one from the forward cleat on the finger slip to the boat's starboard side cleat located aft of the starboard winch to keep the boat located snug on the slip as desired. My main docking lines are to the boat's bow cleat on starboard side and the cleat on/near the transom starboard side. The 4th line I have from the main dock past the post side of the boat to the cleat on/near the transom port side. Quite frankly, this 4th line serves little purpose since my boat is snugged up to the finger slip on the starboard side.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 06/27/2016 10:00:28

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2016 : 11:47:35

quote:
Originally posted by islander

...I get bulk 3/8" twisted nylon from HD and make my own with a Bow knot on the end...

A bow knot, or a bowline?

I have used bow knots on a boat--for quick-release reef ties. Looks kinda cute!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2016 : 12:03:16

Thanks again,

Yeppers, that same single hander's book also advised leaving fenders permanently on your slip. Thanks again everyone.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2016 : 12:28:50

Boy, Ya just can't slip one by Dave

It's what happens when you type before coffee. Aw heck,You know what I meant, Put a loopy in the ropey.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

RickR
1st Mate

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USA
25 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2016 : 13:23:33

I use 25' of 1/2" dock line from Defender plus trac/mid-ship cleats for the spring lines on the port side...wishing those were 35'..lol

RickR
Jamestown, NY
81 C25/SK/SR/Trad #2668
"Vind Dansor"

Edited by - RickR on 06/27/2016 13:25:00

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2016 : 15:32:41

One caveat to 25' spring lines. Make sure they're just short enough to not get caught in your propeller if they should happen to go over the side...guess how I know...

That was a fun incident.

FWIW, I have 15' x 3/8" three strand nylon bow & stern lines rigged to my cleats, plus I have two 30'-ish x 3/8" braided lines I use for breast lines. I always bring them with me and don't leave any lines on the dock.

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

Phredde
Navigator

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125 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2016 : 16:40:57

My marina has a lot of tidal surge. After going through several $50 rubber snubbers (yes even the big ones can/do break) I took a look at what some of the other boats in my marina are doing. You can kind of tell which ones have it figured out. So I went to a moped tire shop and asked for some used moped tires, they gave me a couple for free. I have three lines tied to those, two attach to different points on the dock, the third to the bow cleat. They have worked great ever since. They stay in place year round. Overkill if you don't have the surge, but much better than those snubbers or gel coat damage if you do. Also, I only have a finger pier on one side. So one of my attachment points is to a car tire around a telephone sized dock pole on the port aft side. I've attached a used detergent bottle to that dock line so that its a little easier to see and retrieve when we come back to the dock.

Hope this helps -

Phredde
Catalina 25
San Francisco

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2016 : 17:12:49

Phredde,Necessity is the mother of invention.. I would love to see that setup you have. We should point out that these dock line set ups are for conventional floating docks with finger slips. Tying to fixed docks or poles without fingers are a different animal.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2016 : 20:15:26

quote:
Originally posted by islander

...Tying to fixed docks or poles without fingers are a different animal.

...which I've had to deal with--especially a combination of floating docks and fixed pilings. One tactic there is to run a breast-line from a piling or dock to the cleat on the opposite side of the boat so that the change in the angle, and thereby its effective length, is reduced with the tide (or a seiche on the Great Lakes).

In the more general case, I'm a big advocate for having dedicated home-port dock lines pre-adjusted and ready to drop on cleats when you enter the slip--especially a spring-line to stop and pull the boat toward the dock. It's especially useful in tidal waters, where the right lengths can take some adjustments. Like others here, I also carry a full supply of lines on board for docking elsewhere.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3754 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2016 : 13:05:04

It is often recommended to have two lines about 1.5 X boat length. I support that, 35' is close enough, but make custom lines for my summer and winter slips. I also recommend premium twisted nylon and learning to splice. Premium line is easier to splice, splices stay in better, stronger, and more abrasion resistant. I think its worth it.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4275 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2016 : 15:15:18

Since my boat is 35 miles from my house and the fact I haven't been making it down to the boat very often lately I use a set of 1/2" twisted nylon dock lines plus another set of 3/8" braided lines over the top of the 1/2" lines. The braided lines help lock the 1/2" lines on the cleats and act as a backup for the 1/2" lines. It only takes a few seconds longer on each cleat to have them doubled up and I don't have to worry about it.

I keep the 3/8" lines just barely loose when the 1/2" lines pull tight in any direction. That way they are not chafing and allow the 1/2" line to stretch.

I also have a 1/2 twisted nylon line that runs from the forward dock cleat to my port winch. Takes bit to get the length adjusted just right the first time so the line is never in the water and is just long enough to maintain a little slack when the boat moves around in the slip.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

dalelargent
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2016 : 05:59:03

What is it about leaving lines attached to the dock that makes it easier for single-handers? I like stepping off the boat onto the dock with a line or 2 in my hand...feels like I have a leash on the boat.

I get the permanent fenders...help me see the advantage of the lines...

Thanks!

1989 c25 WK/TR #5838
1998 Catalina 36 mkii
1983 Vagabond 14

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2016 : 06:13:27

Just step off the boat and drop the loops over the boat cleats and your done. No adjustments needed because the lines are already set at the right length and the boat will sit in the exact spot as when you left.. If you do the mid ship spring line first the boat isn't going anywhere. Its much easier and faster to just drop the loop over the cleat verses having to carry a line off the boat to a cleat, Bend over and adjust the length then tie it to a cleat. When I dock its less than 20 seconds to tie up. When I come into my slip I have a dock line with the loop over the winch and the line in my hand. As I slide into the slip I reach out and drop the line over the first cleat on the dock and then just put some drag on the line to stop the forward movement. That line keeps the boat from drifting away and gives me enough time to step off and secure the other dock lines.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 07/03/2016 06:22:51

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2016 : 06:46:27

Hello Again,

Scott and probably everyone here has more experience than I so all I can do is relay what I read in the single hander's book. The author says that as he comes into the slip he just picks up the dock line with a boat hook, never leaving the boat. If I remember correctly, he said the midship or spring line as Scott said.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2016 : 06:48:16

quote:
Originally posted by dalelargent

What is it about leaving lines attached to the dock that makes it easier for single-handers? I like stepping off the boat onto the dock with a line or 2 in my hand...feels like I have a leash on the boat.

I get the permanent fenders...help me see the advantage of the lines...

Thanks!

If your lines are in place and already adjusted to the correct length, all you have to do is drop one loop of a breast line over a midship cleat and the boat is secured in the slip. It's easy for a singlehander to reach a midship cleat. After that one line is attached, you can take your time to attach the rest of the docklines. If you leave your docklines attached to the pilings, and you can't reach all the docklines with your bare hands, you can reach them with a boat hook. If you don't leave your docklines attached to the pilings, you have to maneuver the boat near each piling, so you can drop a loop over each piling. Thus, a singlehander can dock his boat without ever stepping off the boat. If you don't leave your docklines attached to the dock, then you have to step off the boat to secure them to the dock cleats.

If you're just sailing for a few hours, why remove all your docklines, coil them and stow them, and then have to get them out and reattach them when you return? If you leave them there, you avoid that hassle. Almost all the people I sail with only take their docklines with them when they're cruising away from their home marina.

Sailors have a lot of work to do when they finish sailing. They have to fold and bag the sails, cover the mainsail, cover the tiller, attach the fenders, etc. You'll enjoy sailing more if you can avoid having to take unnecessary steps to put the boat away in the hot afternoon sun.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3754 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2016 : 14:22:51

I leave a stern line draped over the end of the dock. I can pick it up with a boat hook on my return without leaving the tiller and drop it on the stern cleat. It will just swing me against the permanently mounted fenders if I have to much headway. After that, Steve's right - there's plenty to do at the start and finish of a sail and less is better.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.