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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Keel Cable and Replacement

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Captmorgan
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USA
220 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/16/2016 : 15:07:16

I have the Gal-Way on stands at the moment I had the fiberglass repaired by a pro-(follow up to one of my earlier posts)

It was just a surface delamination no structural damage so I was lucky

She is on stands and I am going to prime then apply the bottom paint.

Before I out her in I want to replace the keel cable. Where is the best place to order it. What else should I know?

Can I do it while it is on blocks. How long does it take?
I searched older posts but didn't find and answer on the while on stands. The ones I saw were on the trailer. If you know of one send it to me.

Do you have to put something under the keel so when you lower it you can remove the cable. A stack of Railroad Ties or something? Another Jack Stand. How do people do it?

Again always looking to Learn. Based on what I learned here I'm replacing it after two years without a failure.

"The Gal-Way" 1985 SR/SK Barnegat Bay, NJ

Enjoy Sailing =) Be Safe

Happy Sailing - John

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TEM58
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USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2016 : 18:50:07

Get the kit from CD, it has everything you'll need. There's several discussions here with tips on getting the turning ball out-- it can be a real bear. Replacing the cable usually only takes a few minutes if all goes well, the ball is a whole other story. As for lowering the keel, depending on how high the boat is you can lower it all the way to ground. Or you can put a support under it. Either way you'll want to rest it on a block to avoid damage to the keel.

From your post it sounds as if the keel is still cranked up. Hopefully it's supported so that the lifting mechanism is not the only thing holding the weight of the keel.

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=27545&SearchTerms=Turning,ball

Tim M
�Perfect Match II�
2003 C350 #35
Cruising FL
PO "Wine Down"
2000 C250 WK #453
PO "Perfect Match"
1983 C25 SR/SK #3932
Lake Belton
Belton, TX

Lee Panza
Captain

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465 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2016 : 21:33:09

quote:
Originally posted by Captmorgan

...Can I do it while it is on blocks.

Yes, it's actually easier to replace the cable when the keel is lowered all the way down. Keep in mind that at full drop the head of the keel comes to rest against the inside of the case, so the keel remains swept back at an angle of around 45 degrees; in other words, it stops only half-way down to plumb (vertical). When the keel is down most of the cable is unwound off the winch drum.

quote:

Do you have to put something under the keel so when you lower it you can remove the cable.

Before you attempt to lower it, I would recommend stacking cribbing (short sections cut from railroad ties would work, but dimensioned lumber like 6x6 is safer because the surfaces are flat and square). As you lower it, remove one level of blocks at a time just before the keel comes to rest on them. That way, if the cable breaks, the keel just falls a short distance. If the cable breaks without something to stop its fall, it will want to keep going when the head contacts the case, causing serious damage. Remember, without the bouyancy of the water the load on the cable is much higher.

quote:
Based on what I learned here I'm replacing it after two years without a failure.

The prevailing opinion seems to be two years, whether you think you need it or not, especially in salt water. Good luck to you, but if you have trouble just keep in mind that what you learn the hard way this time will be an investment that will pay dividends two years from now (and it'll be even easier two years later).

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2016 : 04:25:04

As mentioned, order the kit from Catalina Direct.

I don't think you actually need to support the keel if you can lower it all the way down. Slowly lower it until there is slack in the cable and then replace it.

In my case when it came time to replace the cable I employed my power boat lift. Raised the boat out of the water, lowered the keel all the way down, replace cable and turning ball, connect cable to winch. Crank it back up and back in the water she went.

Photo of the unusual event:

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

Captmorgan
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220 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2016 : 16:51:22

Thanks for the replys Ill call the marina and make sure they have something under it. I wouldn't want it to snap now. right before I change it. I ordered the kit. I hope my ball is not a bear.

"The Gal-Way" 1985 SR/SK Barnegat Bay, NJ

Enjoy Sailing =) Be Safe

Happy Sailing - John

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2016 : 22:11:13

To late to be helpful, but the yard rigger made me a new cable for a lot less than CD charges and no shipping. I did get the new turning ball and the yard made a new pin and pivot been from bronze stock for a few dollars. Incidentally, my keel lowers all the way and even swings a little if I don't put a couple of turns back on the winch..

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

RickR
1st Mate

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USA
25 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2016 : 09:40:23

Replaced mine this winter with the kit from CD. Super easy. Re the ball, just use a Phillips screwdriver to push the old pin out the pull it slightly back then angle it up. Learned that from the self help videos from CD. It was almost FUN !! ;)

RickR
Jamestown, NY
81 C25/SK/SR/Trad #2668
"Vind Dansor"

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2016 : 21:40:02

quote:
Originally posted by Dave5041

...Incidentally, my keel lowers all the way and even swings a little if I don't put a couple of turns back on the winch..

OK, ya' got me wondering, Dave. How could this be?
When I look at a factory diagram for the swing keel, it seems like there should be an awful lot more cast iron aft of the pivot when the head of the keel is against the case. Here's the graphic I use for reference:

If you rotate this diagram 55 degrees clockwise the sloping edge becomes vertical, and it should rest against the aft surface of the recess. That drops the aft edge of the keel down to an angle of 55 degrees from horizontal, which is about what it looks like in the owner's manual diagrams I've seen. It also puts the bottom edge of the keel roughly horizontal, and I think this is the design intent.

In that position, there's much more than half the mass of the keel lying aft of the pivot (especially since the keel is much thicker in the lower portion than in the upper portion, which is largely forward of the pivot).

Curiously, the diagram that's loaded onto the Association's server in the "Manuals & Brochures" section shows a very different shape for the head of the keel:

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/manbro/pictures/pc13.gif

If that graphic is even close to accurate, the centroid of the keel mass would probably hang directly below the pivot before the head contacts the case, leaving it free to swing as you described. The forward edge would be almost vertical and the bottom edge would be inclined up toward the bow rather than horizontal. The only way I can see this keel shape working is if the aft surface of the case is sloping forward, unlike this graphic.

So why am I raising this in such detail? Because this could make a substantial difference in the way the boat behaves. The center of lateral resistance would not be stable unless you crank a few turns on the winch as you do, but that moves the CLR aft. And it still wouldn't put the keel in the position as it appears in graphics I've seen unless you crank several more turns to lift it up and aft some more. Perhaps 6" or thereabouts. Anything less would have the CLR much too far forward of where it should be, resulting in serious weather helm.

I'm not planning on having my boat in slings any time soon, so I can't check this out, but I'm wondering if Catalina had used very different keel configurations at different stages of the model run.

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2016 : 22:47:50

I would guess that different configurations would be the issue, although sloppy casting wouldn't be totally out of question. I normally do 2-3 turns to snug it, enough to hum at 4-4.5 kts. That would probably be around a foot at the cable attachment with the intersect angle and a bit longer at the foot.. I don't remember exactly what the head of the keel looked like and don't plan on dropping it again any time soon. I run about 6" of rake at the masthead and don't have excessive weather helm

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3754 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2016 : 08:28:50

Confirming your comments, i rummaged through some fuzzy underwater video with a protractor and found that with my 4 knotish tuning the foot of the keel is parallel to the waterline stripe. and and the keel is swept back about 55�, both within +/- 2-3 degrees.

edit: That is a great diagram. I do remember that the head of my keel looks like that, but I don't know the measurements.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Edited by - Dave5041 on 06/22/2016 08:35:15

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2016 : 13:17:21

Looks accurate. I bought the keel spacer kit from CD when I bought Recess and had the bottom job guy mount them before repainting the bottom. This spacer kit involves pads that attach to sides of the keel up forward so that the pads are inside the keel trunk when the keel is lowered, thus significantly reducing keel wobble.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3754 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2016 : 13:46:24

Several people reported losing the spacers on the keel in their first season. You might want to drill and tap the keel for a counter sunk screw through the spacer in addition to the adhesive. It could have been a surface prep issue, but the keel is easy to drill.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

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