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Electric Propulsion - lemonade from a lemon

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oldengineer1949
1st Mate

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USA
75 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/24/2016 : 09:58:29

I am valiantly trying to "go green" (and cheap) by replacing Pualani's ancient Johnson Sailmaster with a Minn Kota Traxxis 80. The blankety-blank motor control has fried twice now, fortunately still under warranty, and each time it politely died after getting us back to port. However, after consulting with Minn Kota customer support, I have to face the fact that I bought the wrong motor (troller vs electric outboard, according to Minn Kota's product definitions). Apparently, the Traxxis 80's duty-cycle was designed for extended trolling at low speeds, not as a prime mover running at cruising speed (3/4 throttle to full throttle).
However, after studying both models (Traxxis and EO) the only difference I see between the two are 7 cooling vents cut into the top rear of the EO's control case top. Otherwise, the two motors are identical.
So, like a good engineer, "if it ain't broke, it don't have enough features", I decided to modify my Traxxis, instead of popping for the "upgraded" EO (to the tune of an additional $900).
I present to you the Traxxis 80 V6 Black Widow Edition *chuckle*

I solemnly promise to update this thread with time trial results (hopefully this weekend) if the weather permits.

Fair Winds and Following Seas to all,

Al and Bernie Corson

Al and Bernadette, "Pualani Nui", '82 C25 SR/SK, homeport MCB Quantico

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2016 : 10:46:38

Al, Looks like a Minn Kota drag boat engine.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2016 : 10:52:21

Needs flames painted on!

Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/

oldengineer1949
1st Mate

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USA
75 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2016 : 11:59:23

Scott, that was one of my evil intentions, to make a miniature drag boat engine parody, just to freak out the Minn Kota folks

Seth, good idea! I will bring it up at my next staff meeting with the Admiral (she does some awesome nail art as a licensed beautician).

On a semi-serious note, I hope the external heat sink gives the little motor some endurance legs. I have to wait for half-decent weather to test it out.

Al and Bernadette, "Pualani Nui", '82 C25 SR/SK, homeport MCB Quantico

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2016 : 13:16:38

Hah, I like it. The engineer in me is wondering if you'd get better airflow (and hence cooling), by using larger copper pipe and splitting it with a hacksaw / bandsaw / reciprocating saw to gain surface area.

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2016 : 20:34:19

quote:
Originally posted by delliottg

Hah, I like it. The engineer in me is wondering if you'd get better airflow (and hence cooling), by using larger copper pipe and splitting it with a hacksaw / bandsaw / reciprocating saw to gain surface area.

Think of pitot tubes, he needs a hole in the bottom of each tube, as the air passes over the top of the tubes it will draw cooling air through the tubular heat sinks... and sound like a bagpipe.

Frank Hopper

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2016 : 02:09:04

Hehehe...that's brilliant !!

I believe you will get some more horsepower from this tuning.

Dalpol Phobos 21, 2013, Sole Mio, hull #27, current adventures - We sail Phobos 21

PO of Catalina C25, 1978, High Anxiety, hull #701, SR, FK, L-dinette, inboard diesel Volvo Penta MD2010C w/saildrive - more info

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2016 : 07:24:22

We used a Minn Kota to get us from/to our dock while our petrol outboard was being serviced. Other than draining our grp27 battery very quickly - it moved the boat around quite well. I think duct tape would provide a nice contrast to the copper.

"If ain't broke, you're not trying"
Red Green

1989 C25 TR/WK, #5822
1973 McVay Minuet 19
1975 Jester 12
1981 C25 SR/SK, #2428
1981 C22 SR/SK,
Tanzer 16
Sunfish

"There is nothing, absolutely nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats." Kenneth Grahame

Edited by - OJ on 05/25/2016 12:03:25

oldengineer1949
1st Mate

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USA
75 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2016 : 08:51:22

Dang! Duct Tape! I knew I forgot something! And WD-40! D'ya think WD-40 on the tubes will prevent oxidation? Oh yeah, and air holes at the bottom of each tube ... hmm, I wonder if it will play "Scotland the Brave" at full throttle ...

Al and Bernadette, "Pualani Nui", '82 C25 SR/SK, homeport MCB Quantico

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2016 : 09:50:01

Frank,
Pitot tubes are a brilliant mod!

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2016 : 14:29:42

I think you should upgrade further to a V8. Let's get that Catalina on plane!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2016 : 06:04:43

quote:
However, after studying both models (Traxxis and EO) the only difference I see between the two are 7 cooling vents cut into the top rear of the EO's control case top. Otherwise, the two motors are identical.

Not according to their website and U-Tube videos. Seems the coils/windings and electronics are different. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVXQpc7ya_Y

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

trbagpiper
1st Mate

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USA
33 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2016 : 06:50:43

If you need the music to Scotland the Brave I have it, in case the motor can read music.

Jim Ventimiglia
Toms River Yacht Club
'78 Cat 25 #945 SK/SR "Pipe Dream"

oldengineer1949
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
75 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2016 : 07:49:25

Scott,

you may be right, but without motor specs and detailed schematics there is no real way to explore the differences between the Traxxis and EO series motors and control electronics. All I have to go on are that the Traxxis and EO motor controllers both use the same range-extending controller technology, what they call "Maximizer", which is Pulse Width Modulation continuously-variable digital electronics as opposed to the simpler but less efficient analog resistive stepper control. Also, from what I can tell, the only difference between the Traxxis DC motor and EO motor is one is painted black, the other white. The armature windings may be a bit beefier in the EO motor, but again, without detailed specs, I am just conjecturing. The only visual difference between the two control heads is what I have mentioned before; the EO has 7 cooling slots cut in the casing top, the Traxxis has none.

Jim V, awesome! Do you play the pipes? Unfortunately, Pualani Nui can't dance to Scottish tunes.
(Pualani: "Sure I can, Skipper, wanna see my highland fling?" *giggles*)
(Oldengineer: *rolls eyes* now that would be a sight to see! A wahini wa'a, wiggling her hula hips, a beam eight feet wide I might add, to Scotland the Brave. Yikes! Is anything sacred anymore? Humph!")

Dave, I just couldn't pop for the V-8, but if you could find an old surplus Packard V-12 fer cheap, I would so find a way to stuff that into Pu's engine compartment

Fair Winds and Following Seas to all,

Al and Bernadette, "Pualani Nui", '82 C25 SR/SK, homeport MCB Quantico

Edited by - oldengineer1949 on 05/26/2016 07:52:36

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2016 : 10:17:16

Hello Again,

Now that's intertainment. And I like the drag pipes. Definitely have the Admiral add the flames. Good luck.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

oldengineer1949
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
75 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2016 : 14:49:51

As promised, here are the results of speed trials yesterday:

upstream: 3.0 kts
downstream: 2.3 kts

trial time was 3 PM, low tide was at 6:30 PM, and the wind was out of the South at 7-8 kts, so river current plus outgoing tide upstream against us, but wind directly aft. Downstream I had river and tide currents with me, but wind on Pualani's nose. Interesting results.

However, all this is now academic, because a fellow marina member just sold me his 2008 4-stroke, 5 hp Nissan long-shaft for $500. He had upgraded his motive power, and wanted to "keep it in the family" by selling the motor to me. We took Pualani out with the Nissan chugging away, and performed the same speed trial course. The little Nissan pushed Pu at a respectable 5 kts, up and downstream! The long-shaft works perfectly with Pu's motor mount, its weight a good balance with the spring-assist of the mount. Life is good.

Al and Bernadette, "Pualani Nui", '82 C25 SR/SK, homeport MCB Quantico

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2016 : 15:06:38

I hated that new motor of your because the jets clog, buy a back up carburetor, they are about $50 at Amazon. You will be glad you have it, it takes two minutes to change out.

quote:
Originally posted by oldengineer1949

As promised, here are the results of speed trials yesterday:

upstream: 3.0 kts
downstream: 2.3 kts

trial time was 3 PM, low tide was at 6:30 PM, and the wind was out of the South at 7-8 kts, so river current plus outgoing tide upstream against us, but wind directly aft. Downstream I had river and tide currents with me, but wind on Pualani's nose. Interesting results.

However, all this is now academic, because a fellow marina member just sold me his 2008 4-stroke, 5 hp Nissan long-shaft for $500. He had upgraded his motive power, and wanted to "keep it in the family" by selling the motor to me. We took Pualani out with the Nissan chugging away, and performed the same speed trial course. The little Nissan pushed Pu at a respectable 5 kts, up and downstream! The long-shaft works perfectly with Pu's motor mount, its weight a good balance with the spring-assist of the mount. Life is good.

Frank Hopper

Edited by - pastmember on 05/29/2016 15:07:20

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2016 : 15:25:46

quote:
Originally posted by oldengineer1949

Dave, I just couldn't pop for the V-8, but if you could find an old surplus Packard V-12 fer cheap, I would so find a way to stuff that into Pu's engine compartment

Sorry--I only had in mind adding two stacks to the six you have. Then all you need is a recording from the tailpipes of a Vette...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

Members Avatar

Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2016 : 01:04:13

quote:
Originally posted by pastmember

I hated that new motor of your because the jets clog, buy a back up carburetor, they are about $50 at Amazon. You will be glad you have it, it takes two minutes to change out.

Frank, do you have any positive experience with fuel stabilizers?
However it's a good idea to have the spare carb.

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2016 : 19:57:26

quote:
Originally posted by oldengineer1949

... Dave, I just couldn't pop for the V-8, but if you could find an old surplus Packard V-12 fer cheap, I would so find a way to stuff that into Pu's engine compartment ...

Ha! Packard built Merlins are old news now! Everyone's going to turbines!

You got a great deal on the new motor. Wish I could find a deal like that to replace my '89 Suzuki 8.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.