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The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.
I am refinishing the woodwork throughout my recently acquired 1983 TR fixed keel dinette style cat 25. I have removed the bulkhead dividing the vberth from what was once the head/sink (both have already been permanently removed). Now I am going back and forth between my options. I could simply reinstall the bulkhead and settle for two obvious hanging lockers and/or possibly an added cabinet, or I could indulge in the new found openness of the forward berth and set loose my schemes of further modification. I need some assurance that the boat won't rip itself apart without the half inch teak ply bulkhead.
Is the vberth bulkhead structural?
As far as I can tell the main bulkhead/compression post obviously bare the brunt of the force from the rig, but the location of the forward lower backing plates does concern me. They are about halfway between the two bulkheads.
I think that's the best approach as well. I suppose I was hoping to hear from someone who has already made that call before. I'll post what I found out after I talk to Catalina.
I've been informed from Catalina that it can be done but is not recommended. I was advised to consider reinforcing the deck to make up for the loss of the "some support" the bulkheads provide.
As far as my plans are concerned, I could play it safe and put them back in, give in to my paranoia and reinforce the deck, or throw cautious to the wind and leave them out anyway.
I have little plans to go out in any heavy weather in the foreseeable future, and could easily put the bulkheads back in before I left the dock for anything more than the light day sailing I expect for most of the season.
For what it's worth, I'll be seeking advice from a master boat builder on what possible reinforcement options might be suitable (if any are deemed necessary at all).
Another option, though, may be more trouble than it is worthwhile accomplishing, is to provide a cutaway on the bulkhead. That way, you widen the opening to the VBerth area mainly at the bunk level but widens to almost normal dimension at the cabin top. At the bunk level, still leaving 1/2 the width of the bulkhead on each side of the hull. Thought is that it would still provide substantial load support but obviously reduced. But is the project going to provide a feeling of the space being more open and would it be aesthetically acceptable - Not sure.
I have to believe the cabin trunk is structurally stronger forward of the main bulkhead and compression post that it is aft of there with its huge opening for the pop-top. The coachroof is narrower forward, slightly crowned, and is plywood-cored from edge to edge. It isn't going to oil-can on you unless, perhaps, that plywood is completely rotten.
That's my take--maybe worth no more than you paid for it...
Dave Bristle Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired), Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
Partially removing the bulkhead is something I did consider, but ultimately is not what I am trying to achieve. I agree that it would probably be a viable option, albeit much less "space" rewarding.
I had the boat builder take a closer look at what I am considering, removing the bulkheads without any reinforcement in its place. He confidently assured me that the deck's support shouldn't be a problem at all, and then advised me to take measurements of the gap between the deck and bunk now and also while under sail in various conditions. If there is any problem with the rig wanting to pull the deck up, I will be able to tell then. If there was any sizeable difference I would need to address it.
We talked about that possibility, and he advised, if that was the case, to install tie rods from the forward lowers to the bunk below, which also would need some minor reinforcement and a backing plate. This would be less space expensive as well more structurally supportive (and a bit more involved...)
He said he would be really surprised if the deck did flex, even under sail, but if it did that adding the tie rods would definitely be enough to prevent the deck from wanting to be taken up by the rig.
For now though, I've taken my measurements, started a new log, and have one more reason to get out and sail!
Looks like you got some good advice and as you indicated, you now have a reason to sail. Sort of sailing, performance monitoring and a project all wrapped into one.
Seems neat, but not sure I'm sold on keeping the head right underneath your head.
Ya, an enclosed head was one of my criteria that led me to the C-25. Lots of nice boats that would have worked better in the slip we had, had porta-potties under the V-berth insert. I had difficulty imagining how that would go over with my wife when I had to relieve my aging bladder at 4 AM...
Dave Bristle Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired), Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
It's funny to me that a marine head is such a necessary and debilitating evil in so many boaters minds. Personally, I will never have another boat with one.
When and if the bigger boat ever comes, it will be outfitted with a composting toilet. For a c25, I don't see any need for anything more than a a porta potty.
As far as porta potties are concerned I feel like the most natural place to use one is... In the cockpit. Business done outside is infinitely better than business done inside. Of course, this not a viable option for the dock (where you should be using the marina bathrooms any way), nor to the Victorian man or woman, but let's say we are in secluded anchorage (where we all would ideally have our boats and are also most likely to actually need the head) if you're on my boat, business is done top side or overboard.
Reality would have it be that a specific home be given to the crapper inside the boat since there is no sensible place to keep it topside, unless I could free up the gas locker somehow... I believe the best kind of porta potty is the unused kind. To the bilge locker it goes!
Jefffriday, thank you for sharing your pics. It is reassuring to see that the v berth being modified has worked on other boats. Though I will say that I agree with offshoreaccount's sentiment about sleeping above the porta potty, for the same reason I disagree with sleeping right next to a marine head as most seem content to do though.
It's funny to me that a marine head is such a necessary and debilitating evil in so many boaters minds. Personally, I will never have another boat with one.
When and if the bigger boat ever comes, it will be outfitted with a composting toilet. For a c25, I don't see any need for anything more than a a porta potty.
As far as porta potties are concerned I feel like the most natural place to use one is... In the cockpit. Business done outside is infinitely better than business done inside. Of course, this not a viable option for the dock (where you should be using the marina bathrooms any way), nor to the Victorian man or woman, but let's say we are in secluded anchorage (where we all would ideally have our boats and are also most likely to actually need the head) if you're on my boat, business is done top side or overboard.
Reality would have it be that a specific home be given to the crapper inside the boat since there is no sensible place to keep it topside, unless I could free up the gas locker somehow... I believe the best kind of porta potty is the unused kind. To the bilge locker it goes!
Jefffriday, thank you for sharing your pics. It is reassuring to see that the v berth being modified has worked on other boats. Though I will say that I agree with offshoreaccount's sentiment about sleeping above the porta potty, for the same reason I disagree with sleeping right next to a marine head as most seem content to do though.
Hahahah, imagine installing it there in the locker.. taking a crap while sailing along!
On a side note, I recently heard that the statistics of drownings while falling overboard while urinating off of a boat are crazy!
Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson "David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053
Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ. The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.