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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Outboard on Lake Michigan

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don
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/04/2016 : 04:11:24

My question is whether it's reasonably safe to sail with an outboard motor on Lake Michigan.

I have a wing keel C25 with a new 4 stroke outboard and a trailer. It's a very reliable motor. I'm considering using my boat on Lake Michigan but I've been worried that that a following sea with Lake Michigan sized waves will swamp the outboard.

I have spent the last three months looking for a boat with an inboard diesel but I can't find a trailer-able boat that I like better than my C25.

Does anyone have opinions or experience that might help me decide whether to keep my C25 or keep looking for a boat with an inboard?

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2016 : 05:36:11

I dont think the danger is in getting pooped, but having the outboard lift clear of the water in rough water and losing thrust. This can happen anywhere. It's happened to me in four foot waves in the Potomac. Of course deeper water should have a longer wavelength and that should be less of a problem.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2016 : 05:41:31

It's not unheard of for an outboard engine to be swamped by a following wave, but it doesn't happen often. I was on a full keel boat running downwind in a microburst with measured 50 kt winds. We were on a parallel course and about 40 yards to port and abeam of a Cal 25 with an outboard motor. We were occasionally getting pooped by waves breaking over the transom. Nevertheless, his outboard never quit.

The major disadvantage of an outboard engine is not in motoring downwind. It is in motoring to windward. In a really severe chop, it can become impossible to motor to windward, because the prop is lifted out of the water by choppy waves.

A C25 is intended to be a coastal cruiser and inland lake sailer. It's not a good choice for sailing in all conditions, come what may. Use it within it's limits, as well as the limits of your own skill and experience, and it'll take good care of you.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2016 : 07:40:25

Welcome, Don!

I grew up near Lake Michigan and lived around the Great Lakes for the first half of my life (or it used to be half)... Now I'm on Long Island Sound and a short hop to the open Atlantic. The larger waves on Lake Michigan are generally longer-period than, for example, Long Island Sound or the Chesapeake, or even shallow Lake Erie. The C-25 will tend to ride up over them, and the outboard will have less tendency to be drowned or lift out than even in smaller waves where I am now. I've motored through 4-5' short chop against 30+ winds on Long Island Sound with a "long" (not extra-long) shaft Honda 8--our delivery cruise on our "new" C-25. It was slow and tiresome, but it didn't feel dangerous. Turning downwind just made it easier.

However, going down-sea in big Lake Michigan waves, the handling of the boat on the fronts of the waves can be tricky because at one point on the wave, the water is moving forward faster than you are and the rudder behaves as it would when you're backing up. (Then the water reverses and moves toward your stern.) This is what sailors complain about in "following seas", and can even cause a broach when the helmsman pulls the wrong way. Lots of C-25s have sailed Lake Michigan, the bigger and deeper Lake Superior (at least one member here), the Atlantic and the Pacific--most with outboards. We just don't challenge Mother Nature too much--obviously these are not "blue water" boats, but they generally can take more than I care to.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/04/2016 07:49:37

don
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2016 : 04:02:23

Thanks very much for your responses. You've given me lots to think about. I think I'm going to try my C-25 on Lake Michigan this summer and see how the boat handles. I plan to stick close to shore on the east side where there is a harbor every 30 miles or so. I've been on the lake numerous times in a Catalina 320. I'll let you know how it goes.

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2016 : 19:51:32

Late, but my 2 cents worth: Lake Erie waves are short period steep waves and cease being fun around 4 feet. I've endured more but wouldn't seek them out. Sailing in the Gulf of Mexico with long period 6 footers is about as much as I enjoy. L. Michigan is deeper than the coastal area of the gulf and should be better behaved. Don't stay to close to that lee shore. Crossing L. Erie is 40-50 miles and not particularly daunting, and 10 miles off in the gulf with good weather is pretty nice.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

wanderer13
1st Mate

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USA
76 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2016 : 08:18:46

Hey Don, I just moved from Rhode Island to Wisconsin with my Catalina 25. I have it on Lake Michigan now. I have sailed Narragansett Bay, Buzzards Bay, Long Island Sound, the Chesapeake, the Atlantic Ocean... I can say that sailing Lake Michigan is its own experience. The water, the wave action, and the weather is just different. That said, many, many sailors have successfully sailed the Lake with an outboard. I have been told the C25 might be a little light on displacement for Lake Michigan, but there are a lot of smaller boats that are out there on it. It all comes down the the conditions.

1981 Catalina 25 FK/TR

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2016 : 08:58:45

I did a fleet cruise along the east coast of Lake Michigan with C22s and C25s, years ago, and we checked our weather, hurried to the next inlet, and had no difficulties. It got very windy and choppy one day, and we had to reef our mainsails, but it was not nearly bad enough to put the boats in danger. It's a big body of water that shouldn't be treated casually, but it offers fine sailing.

One night, however, 60 kt winds blew through while we were anchored at Saugatuck, and all of us dragged our anchors. The holding ground wasn't very good, consisting of very loose sand, so use ample ground tackle.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2016 : 19:51:06

Optimally, an inboard auxiliary's prop location is better in heavy seas on bodies of water such as Lake Michigan, or Long Island Sound where I sail. That said, while I have been concerned at times about following seas "swamping" my 9.8 xl shaft the bigger aggravation has been prop out of or just barely in the water causing slower movement. The trick is to handle the helm based on the seas, wind, waves, and direction you want to go. Take it easy and you will do fine with an outboard. If and when the wind is honking then any engine will seem less than optimal -- but prudence will keep you from sailing in such conditions, and if they occur, the "iron Genny" will perform just fine.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

don
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2016 : 18:20:40

Update:

My boat's co-owner and I trailered our C25 up to New Buffalo, put in at the public launch, motored under the bridge, and stepped the mast while the boat was tied to a pier at the public marina.

We sailed out of New Buffalo for eight days. We sailed to Chicago one day and came back the next. We got caught in a squall. On the last day, an all-night 20 knot wind from the northeast built some 6 to 7 foot waves by morning. We stuck our nose out of the harbor, gained confidence, and found that the boat handled the waves quite well. The advice that you all offered turned out to be very valuable. Indeed, following seas gave us no problem. Running dead into the wind was more challenging, but we still felt secure. We have a notch on the motor mount that puts the motor rather deep into the water.

After a great week, we are really glad we stuck with our C25 and can't wait for our next chance to be on Lake Michigan. Again, thanks for your help.

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.