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Today's boating discovery of the day; need motor.…

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michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/31/2016 : 18:06:57

…repair or replacement. Currently have Nissan 2003 8 hp 2 stroke. Repair seem prohibitive at $600 or so. Can trade for rebuilt 2004 Yamaha 9.8 hp (?) 4 stroke for $1,300 including trade. Lifting 8 hp already is difficult for me. Both are long shaft units.

Boat:1981 25C

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2016 : 18:37:08

What kind of lifting do you mean? Raising the bracket? Lifting the motor off and onto the bracket? The former can be alleviated by a more strongly springed bracket (like the 4-spring Garhauer from Catalina Direct). The latter... well, the Tohatsu 9.8 4-stroke (what also used to be the Nissan and is now also the Mercury 9.9) is probably the lightest of the 4-strokes, although probably heavier than a 9.9 2-stroke.

2- vs 4-stroke... Think chainsaw vs. car. Smoke and noise vs. clear air and quiet. Nuff said.

Next, a "long shaft" (20") model is sub-optimal for someone on "big water" in a 25' sailboat. "Extra-long" (25") is better. If you're going to invest in a new, long-term solution, unless you're in a small lake, go extra-long. Then, you can also decide whether electric start and/or power-tilt are worthwhile options. I really liked the electric start, and didn't need the power-tilt.

I believe if sailing is your relaxation, your passion, or whatever, make it that. It might be counter-intuitive, but the auxiliary power on a sailboat can be a huge part of the enjoyment of using a sailboat. (To put it another way, it can also be a huge detraction... and you just don't want that!)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/31/2016 18:47:36

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2016 : 19:20:03

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

2- vs 4-stroke... Think chainsaw vs. car. Smoke and noise vs. clear air and quiet. Nuff said.

BTW, I've had a good experience (so far) using fully synthetic 2-stroke oil that results in almost no smoke with my 2-stroke outboard.

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

I believe if sailing is your relaxation, your passion, or whatever, make it that. It might be counter-intuitive, but the auxiliary power on a sailboat can be a huge part of the enjoyment of using a sailboat. (To put it another way, it can also be a huge detraction... and you just don't want that!)

IMHO, this is a great insight. I never expected buying a sailboat would result in me becoming intimately knowledgeable with outboard engine maintenance.

Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2016 : 19:27:35

Yes, raising the bracket.

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2016 : 05:44:23

Yamaha 9.9 has 32" shaft. Should be good?

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2016 : 06:26:35

The measurements I referred to, which are the way they're identified by the makers, is the "transom height" recommended for the motor on a powerboat. It's generally a couple of inches longer than the measurement from the top of whatever the motor is clamped onto, to the "anti-ventilation" plate (above the prop). A "long" shaft is generally referred to as 20" (transom height) and measures something like 22.5", and extra-long is called 25" and measures around 27.5".

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2016 : 06:53:56

Extra long shaft is far and away the best option. 4 cycles are heavy! My Mercury is about 35 pounds heavier than my old Johnson 2 cycle. 4's use less fuel, produce less pollution and are quieter. 2's are simple and run forever. $1300 and trade for a 1 year newer used engine that might or might not have problems and less than optimal shaft length vs a $600 repair or a new Tohatsu from Online Outboards for not a lot more? I have bought several used outboards over the years and all were sold for a reason. All had issues that were not apparent during a short test run and required more of my time and money. Online Outboards has a 10% discount on already excellent prices for members that will more than pay for joining. If you choose to replace it, buy a new Tohatsu and forget your problems.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2016 : 07:11:08

New Tohatsu 8 hp long shaft $1720 or $1900 with electric start and charging before discount. Extra long 9.8 electric $2210

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2016 : 13:36:09

...then deduct from that what you can get from selling yours. I sold a 6-8-year-old Honda 8 long for $1100 back around 2003. That was a nice bite out the cost of a new electric start, high-thrust, extra-long Honda 8.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2016 : 14:17:43

Sold an 91 Johnson 2 cycler for 6 or 700 around 5-6 years ago.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2016 : 08:22:28

Current motor not worth messing around with, I'm told. Which Tohatsu for C-25? Electric start sounds appealing.

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2016 : 11:05:15

Tohatsu 25" shaft, elec start. You'll love it and never look back!

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2016 : 13:23:57

That's the 9.8 David's talking about. Association membership gets a discount from Online Outboards.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/05/2016 13:24:38

Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2016 : 10:29:20

I'm coming in late on this post but must comment. sethp001 makes a good point here plus responding to his lifting problem: 2 strokes are MUCH lighter than 4 strokes. 2 strokes are easy to repair yourself, a 4 stroke is not for the average layman to repair! Whats wrong with the 2 stroke? Carb problems are common on 2 or 4 strokes and that is easy to fix. Replacing rings on a 2 stroke is simple. Chief

COMPASS ROSE C250WK
Tall Mast, Wing keel
PORT CHIEF, Bodega Bay Ca.
IE,EE,FCC lic #1890

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2016 : 12:15:05

If the lifting is the issue and you are just a lake cruiser, what about the Mecury/Nissan/Tohatsu 6HP SailPro?

Enough power with extra-long shaft and High Thrust Propeller (8.375" Dia. X 6.0" Pitch)

Dalpol Phobos 21, 2013, Sole Mio, hull #27, current adventures - We sail Phobos 21

PO of Catalina C25, 1978, High Anxiety, hull #701, SR, FK, L-dinette, inboard diesel Volvo Penta MD2010C w/saildrive - more info

Edited by - Tomas Kruska on 04/29/2016 12:17:20

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2016 : 20:10:07

http://onlineoutboards.com/tohatsu-9-8-hp-outboards.html?cws_shaft_length=23

Time to get going on this. What does the more expensive option offer over the other?

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2016 : 20:11:41

Power tilt I see.

TCurran
Admiral

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USA
588 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2016 : 05:12:34

Have the Tohatsu 9.8, electric start, 25" shaft on my 25' Watkins. I like it and recommend it. Most of the time I keep the motor mount all the way up and just tilt the engine down to get in and out of the slip. Only time I move the engine mount down is when I motor long distance or in a high wind or chop. I like the convenance of just tilting the motor up and down vice fighting with the motor mount (I have the four spring model CD sells)for day sails, but it's nice to have the option of dropping the motor when needed.

The only issue I have is it is hard to flush. If you're in fresh water, this isn't an issue.

Tom Curran
1981 Capri 25 Hull #101 "Dirty Debbie"
1988 Watkins 30
PAFB, FL

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2016 : 21:50:17

Will the tilt feature fascilitate any convenience on a C-25?

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2016 : 06:57:33

quote:
Originally posted by michael.anda

Will the tilt feature fascilitate any convenience on a C-25?

Without being able to tilt my motor (20" shaft), it would drag in the water when simply lifted, especially on port tack. Could depend on where the motor mount is installed, length of shaft, travel of lifting function, where your boat sits on it's waterline, etc. etc.. May just be me, but I always assumed the tilt function is a must.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2016 : 07:46:16

He's talking about the power tilt option. The outboard can still be tilted manually.

I don't think that was an option when I replaced my outboard. I also don't think many members here have it. At least I don't remember it being discussed.

I never had any difficulty tilting the motor manually. It would have been nice to just push a button and have it tilt. Not sure I would have paid the extra price for it though.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2016 : 07:52:43

quote:
Originally posted by michael.anda

Will the tilt feature fascilitate any convenience on a C-25?

Most folks with extra-long shafts find they have to tilt up at least a little to keep the prop out of the water at rest, and maybe more for sailing. For some, reaching over or under the stern rail to the back of the cowling is onerous--the power-tilt feature makes it a push-button thing. I didn't need it with my beefy Honda, but my back was in good shape.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

TCurran
Admiral

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USA
588 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2016 : 08:29:31

quote:
Originally posted by michael.anda

Will the tilt feature fascilitate any convenience on a C-25?

Not knowing your age, health, etc it's hard to give the perfect answer. My engine is not hard to tilt up (it clears the water when up), putting down is not much of an issue either, gravity helps. I did leave my thumb in the wrong spot once and got bit. But again, I can lower, run my engine and move the boat with the motor mount all the way up.

I don't believe the extra expense is worth it to me (or would have been on my Catalina 25), ask me in ten years and I might have a different answer

Tom Curran
1981 Capri 25 Hull #101 "Dirty Debbie"
1988 Watkins 30
PAFB, FL

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2016 : 10:53:42

I had the Nissan version of the Tohatsu 9.8hp, 25" shaft, electric start motor on our C-25. As mentioned above, an outstanding motor. I tilted it up while sailing most times because it would drag on port tack. My age at the time was low 60's and I have a good back. The motor has a shallow water tilt setting and that was sufficient in the slip to get the prop out of the water with the mount in the up position.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

michael.anda
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2016 : 04:06:49

quote:
Originally posted by TCurran

Have the Tohatsu 9.8, electric start, 25" shaft on my 25' Watkins. I like it and recommend it. Most of the time I keep the motor mount all the way up and just tilt the engine down to get in and out of the slip. Only time I move the engine mount down is when I motor long distance or in a high wind or chop. I like the convenance of just tilting the motor up and down vice fighting with the motor mount (I have the four spring model CD sells)for day sails, but it's nice to have the option of dropping the motor when needed.

The only issue I have is it is hard to flush. If you're in fresh water, this isn't an issue.

I'm in salt water, motor mount starboard, dock access port. What makes the tilt model harder to flush?

TCurran
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
588 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2016 : 04:44:54

quote:
Originally posted by michael.anda

quote:
Originally posted by TCurran

Have the Tohatsu 9.8, electric start, 25" shaft on my 25' Watkins. I like it and recommend it. Most of the time I keep the motor mount all the way up and just tilt the engine down to get in and out of the slip. Only time I move the engine mount down is when I motor long distance or in a high wind or chop. I like the convenance of just tilting the motor up and down vice fighting with the motor mount (I have the four spring model CD sells)for day sails, but it's nice to have the option of dropping the motor when needed.

The only issue I have is it is hard to flush. If you're in fresh water, this isn't an issue.

I'm in salt water, motor mount starboard, dock access port. What makes the tilt model harder to flush?

Not the tilt...the 25" shaft. With my setup when the motor is down, it's in the water. when the motor is slightly tilted it's far enough from the boat that my arms aren't long enough to put the flushing ears on. I do not flush after every use, about once a quarter, but I use the boat at least once a week.

Tom Curran
1981 Capri 25 Hull #101 "Dirty Debbie"
1988 Watkins 30
PAFB, FL

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