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Sail recommendation

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/08/2016 : 20:15:54

Does anybody have experience with I'm very interested in a sail they make called "The Generator". It's an ultra-light wind sail (i.e. gennaker/drifter/asym) made form 1.5 ounce fabric. It sells for around $425 for my C250. Sounds almost too good to be true.

I've read a couple of online reviews about the sailmaker that weren't favorable but they were a few years old.

Finally, I singlehand a lot. The choice of sails is between a 150% and a 165%. The point of the sail is to catch as much wind as possible in very light wind situations but, is a 165% too much for a singlehanded sailor to handle?

John Russell
1999 C250 SR/WK #410
Bay Village, Ohio
Sailing Lake Erie
Don't Postpone Joy!

Edited by - John Russell on 02/08/2016 20:16:55

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2016 : 20:17:37

Is there a problem with putting the name of a sailmaker in a posting?

John Russell
1999 C250 SR/WK #410
Bay Village, Ohio
Sailing Lake Erie
Don't Postpone Joy!

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2016 : 20:54:47

quote:
Originally posted by John Russell

Is there a problem with putting the name of a sailmaker in a posting?

There is one who threatened the association over negative comments--maybe that's who you named. We have talked openly about many others, many times.

And as they say, things that sound "too good to be true......" generally are.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2016 : 06:34:40

If you single-hand a lot, you're talking about a lot of sail area to manage/tack. How are your local winds usually? Do you sail just casually or are you usually trying to get somewhere? If you're just going out to bop around I can't image why you would need that much sail especially if you're mainly single-handing (where you can't have someone spotting your blind-spots). This is just my opinion though.

Right now, I've got a pretty flexible inventory that is going to be great this season. New main and 135% will work great for most upwind work. If it starts gettin a little hairy, reef the main, then drop and run 135% alone or drop the 135% and run reefed main alone (this depends on sea state and apparent wind direction I am planning to go). I've got a nice Assy for long downhill hauls that can get me to my anchor spot in a jiff. Also have a storm jib which i am not planning to keep on the boat unless I am going for a weekend and possibility for a change in conditions.

I can't imagine once you start getting that much overlap with a 165 or so that you're really helping that much and that is definitely a bear to manage in a heavy breeze. I loved my 150% (which I just sold to Redeye) but it was difficult to see around which the admiral was not keen on.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2016 : 06:42:01

This is a question that is probably best left to C250 owners to answer, but absent any replies so far, I'll offer what I can.

A 165 is not a sail that I would recommend to a singlehander. With every tack in light air, it will be a struggle to get it across the bow. It will snag on the rigging in light air. A sail that big really needs someone on the bow to walk it around the rigging. In ideal conditions, it might be a wee bit faster than a good quality, well-trimmed 150, but I wouldn't bet on it. I crew for a friend who races with a 180, and the best light air performance we ever made was with the 150, not the 180.

There's a limit to any boat's ability to sail in light air. In about 3-4 kts of wind, and up, a well-trimmed 150 in combination with a well trimmed boat and well-tuned rig, can drive a boat very efficiently. No monohull sailboat can sail efficiently in winds below 2 kts. Below 2 kts, it's time to bag the sails and motor back to the marina. So, a 165 is most useful in winds between 2 and 3 to 3 1/2 kts. A die hard racer might be tempted to buy a sail just to fill that small gap in wind range, but most wouldn't. To be clear, I'm not saying that a 165 couldn't be used in winds above 3 1/2 kts. I'm saying that, above 3 1/2 kts, a 150 is as efficient as a 165. The 165 only really excels in the wind range between 2 - 3 1/2 kts.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2016 : 07:46:14

John, I assume you're talking about a sail you'd fly "loose-luffed" like a drifter or asym, not something you'd put on your furler in place of your current headsail...(?) Is your headsail a 135? That seems to be common on C-250 WKs.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2016 : 20:40:54

Thanks guys. This is why I love this forum. I think the 150 is the answer.

Yes, Dave I would fly this with the luff loose. I guess the only thing to decide now is about the sailmaker who shall remain nameless I guess.

John Russell
1999 C250 SR/WK #410
Bay Village, Ohio
Sailing Lake Erie
Don't Postpone Joy!

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2016 : 06:02:14

quote:
Originally posted by John Russell

Thanks guys. This is why I love this forum. I think the 150 is the answer.

Yes, Dave I would fly this with the luff loose. I guess the only thing to decide now is about the sailmaker who shall remain nameless I guess.

So a loose-luffed head-sail won't bring you much closer to the wind than a beam-reach. You are also planning on having a typical jib on the forestay, correct? Or just plan all downhill trips

So if you are talking about a secondary downwind sail thats not attached on it's luff you can probably go bigger and lighter. Looking back at the original post, I can see that I miss-understood it being a spin-sail.

Sweet. Buy it, make sure you've got the rigging required and a method for easy launch and retrieval and go have fun! In the big scheme of things, I would spend $425 "research" dollars to find out if something works or is fun! haha

I think the other thing that was throwing me off was discussion of single-handing. I bet you will typically only fly this thing with another soul on board (this wouldn't stop Steve Milby) although with a auto-pilot or wheel/tiller lock that doesn't mean its not possible. Just out of convenience most of the time you wont. You're going to have to go to the foredeck at some point no matter what which can be scary for a lot of people by themselves.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2016 : 06:31:23

The point of this sail is to catch little puffs in very light wind. No fears about being on deck in 5 knots.

John Russell
1999 C250 SR/WK #410
Bay Village, Ohio
Sailing Lake Erie
Don't Postpone Joy!

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2016 : 07:51:43

Based on a few experiences with drifters on other people's boats, I don't agree that you won't be able to make any windward progress--it just takes some halyard tension. However, one guy blew a ball-bearing swivel block doing that with a winch--little red balls all over the boat!

I don't know whether the C-250 has a long enough genoa sheet track to properly place a car for a 150--you might want to look into that. Although in very light air, you'd keep the car a little forward of the normal position to power up the sail.

Remember that the lighter the air, the more powerboats will be out dragging big wakes as you climb around... And if you see a dark cloud on the horizon, "gitter down" so you don't end up with 150% of fringe!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2016 : 20:40:11

I singlehand almost exclusively and fly an asymetrical every chance I get, but not much in light air as the apparent wind speed downwind sometimes isn't enough to keep it inflated.

Don Lucier

North Star SR/FK

DavidBuoy
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2016 : 06:14:12

Yea you definitely cant say that company's name here. Looked it up though and that definitely looks like a fun affordable sail. Purchase it and let us know.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

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