Association Forum - Galley Drain

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Galley Drain

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 3

RickR
1st Mate

Member Avatar

USA
25 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/08/2016 : 07:28:48

After reading of the DORA Through-Hull upgrade in the Tech Tips, I thought I'd check mine out. Unlike Dora's, mine popped out using my fingers. AGAIN, MINE POPPED OUT USING ONLY MY FINGERS! Glad I caught this! Thanks Tech Tips! I'm in the process of installing a Thru-Hull now.

https://www.facebook.com/Catalina-25-Vind-Dansor-1669093126665727/

RickR
Jamestown, NY
81 C25/SK/SR/Trad #2668
"Vind Dansor"

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2016 : 08:30:51

Lucky you...Think of all the fun you would have had on the day that let go. Has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever seen a boat builder do. I guess it saved a few bucks in the cost of the build.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2016 : 14:54:10

We haven't talked much about the infamous "to-hulls" of the early years of the C-25, but it's an important subject. I'm not sure of the year when Catalina switched to proper thru-hulls, but several thousand boats were built with the bronze pipes embedded in resin "volcanoes" inside the hull, with gate valves inside and no visible flange on the outside. (My '85 wasn't one of them.) It's certain there are many of these boats still out there owned or being bought by people who haven't seen our discussions here, which have been many since I got involved some 16+ years ago.

It seems we had a few other detailed Tech Tips before Dora's on to-hull to thru-hull conversions--not sure what happened to them. Some have reported that the bronze pipes disintegrated in their hands when they started the project--others had more trouble removing them... The differences could involve electrolysis--a factor in favor of replacing with Marelon thru-hulls over bronze.

It might be a good idea for others who have done this upgrade to chime in with their experiences. As I said, it's been a while, and there are new owners here. "Search" turns up some discussions, but none within the past five years.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

slim
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2016 : 15:23:00

I own a 38 year old boat and I just removed the original thru hulls this last month. I did not take pictures and was not aware of the thru hull situation on my boat when i bought it but being this old i expect my boat has all of the ailments of a older c25 and i am working my way thru them one at a time. In my particular boat the thru hulls if you can call them that were in surprisingly good condition. To remove them I simply drilled them out with a 1� hole saw and then repaired the hole afterwards. I suppose that a person could drill out the fittings with a hole saw of the size you need for you new thru hulls if you wanted and it would be a really easy operation to complete.

1978 - C25 - standard rig - Fixed keel #1040

Bladeswell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2016 : 16:17:43

Hi Everyone,

My boat is a 1979, Hull #973. When I bought her in July one of the first things I noticed was that she still had Too Hulls and gate valves much to my surprise. I have sense cut off the gate valves but unfortunately for me, my Too hull bronze pipes are not coming out easily. Probably because this boat has never been in salt water. Who can say.
I was thinking of tapping the inside then rigging up a puller. Over thinking the problem I guess. Didn't occur to me to simply drill it out. My thanks for that as this is the next part of my restoration and I was dreading it. good sailing all.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Edited by - Bladeswell on 02/17/2016 19:59:04

RickR
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
25 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2016 : 17:57:54

One guy took a big screwdriver and beat it out. The original nipple was 1/2". If mine had not all but fell out, I was going to take a grinder and just grind it off even with the hull then just use my 1" hole saw and just cut it out.

RickR
Jamestown, NY
81 C25/SK/SR/Trad #2668
"Vind Dansor"

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2016 : 21:30:43

The hole saw technique might even be easier if done from the outside, so removing everything (including the pipe) might be unnecessary. (

)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/08/2016 21:32:05

slim
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2016 : 07:53:34

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

The hole saw technique might even be easier if done from the outside, so removing everything (including the pipe) might be unnecessary. ()

Yep that's how i did it and if you get a hole saw that is long enough you will only need to grind down the remainder of the volcano and you're ready to install your new thru hull.

P.S. Remove all your gate valves first!!

1978 - C25 - standard rig - Fixed keel #1040

Edited by - slim on 02/09/2016 07:58:21

Bladeswell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2016 : 16:54:47

Hi Again,

I have already cut off the gate valves. Now I just have the stubs of the bronze pipes. I went to home depot today and bought two 1" hole saws. The first is the standard variety with a pilot drill center. The other is almost twice as long but without a pilot drill. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

RickR
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
25 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2016 : 17:48:53

Make sure that hole saw is the correct size for your replacement Thru-Hull. ;)

RickR
Jamestown, NY
81 C25/SK/SR/Trad #2668
"Vind Dansor"

Bladeswell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2016 : 18:16:09

Hello Again,
1" is the correct size however, the currant Too-hulls are drilled at the wrong angle so when I get them out I will need to fill those holes and drill the new ones at the correct 90 degrees to the hull.
bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2016 : 19:54:15

With all this talk of failing through hull / to-hull fittings I've got to ask this question: among all members of this group, how many of our boats have actually been holed and sunk for any reason? Are there any stats on sinkers? With the several ways our boats can sink (busted thru hull, capsize filling the dumpster, loss of the keel, green water over the side... how often have any C25s, C250s, Capri25 gone down to Davey Jones' Locker, seen the briny deep, were Posiedon's guests? I haven't heard any stats on that.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

DavidBuoy
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2016 : 08:54:19

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

With all this talk of failing through hull / to-hull fittings I've got to ask this question: among all members of this group, how many of our boats have actually been holed and sunk for any reason? Are there any stats on sinkers? With the several ways our boats can sink (busted thru hull, capsize filling the dumpster, loss of the keel, green water over the side... how often have any C25s, C250s, Capri25 gone down to Davey Jones' Locker, seen the briny deep, were Posiedon's guests? I haven't heard any stats on that.

Yea, these discussions have always scared me so I don't even try to open my valves (they the black plastic 90deg turn type) and I carry stuff to hopefully block a leak while im on the boat should it happen. I will be foregoing this upgrade/replacement for yet another year as the plate is already full again.

As a tip, make sure that the boat is out of the water when drilling the too hulls out. That should help a bit.

.

.

.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2016 : 15:23:37

quote:
Originally posted by DavidBuoy

...I will be foregoing this upgrade/replacement for yet another year as the plate is already full again.

Your boat is out of the range of the years of the "to-hulls", as was mine. You should already have ball valves (the 90 degree lever type) attached to proper thru-hulls that have flush, countersunk flanges on the outside--probably chosen by Catalina for purposes of trailering. (Notice the circle around the hole). Yer good.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/10/2016 15:24:38

DavidBuoy
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2016 : 06:10:35

Thats great! haha. Still haven't opened any of them to date for fear they wouldn't close. Should I wait to test them when out of water in April or just go ahead? Probably need some sort of lubricant though.

Thanks Dave!

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2016 : 08:11:30

Rob, If you haven't moved them in a few years I would wait till its out of the water. They will probably be very stiff or stuck. You could remove the hose and spray some PB Blaster inside to soak the ball and also from outside spray some up the hole to the ball and let it soak for a while. Don't try to open them in one shot but rather in very small movements back and forth. When they are free you can lube them with a small dab of marine grease on the end of a stick shoved up the hole from the outside then work the ball open and closed.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2016 : 08:26:50

quote:
Originally posted by DavidBuoy

...Still haven't opened any of them to date for fear they wouldn't close. Should I wait to test them when out of water in April or just go ahead? Probably need some sort of lubricant though.

Now, I don't want to be responsible for a sinking

... If you can open a ball valve, there should be no problem closing it, and if you can't close it, water will just enter the hose up to the level of the waterline, and possibly the ice box when you're heeled to port.

The most likely problem is growth on the surface of the ball where it's exposed to the thru-hull. A little slime will be wiped off as you open the valve. If the handle won't budge without extreme force, leave it till you're out of the water. At that time, spray some WD40 into the thru-hull from the outside and let it soak for a while before trying again.

But first, while in the water, I'd pick up some Stay Afloat sealant from WM or most chandleries--it's sorta like the wax for toilet installations except maybe a little softer. It will plug just about any small leak temporarily, and is good to have aboard in any case. Then I'd pour some vegetable oil (non-polluting) down the hose to the valve, and let it sit for an hour. Then I'd try the valve--it'll probably take some pressure to loosen it the first time, and it will feel a little stiff even when it's free. But if you feel like you might break something with the force you're applying, give it up and wait till you're out of the water. If there's a barnacle in there, you'll probably need to replace the valve. Trying to scrape things in there can scar the ball, which isn't good.

Once you have them working, work the valves at least once a month while in the water.

This message will self-destruct 10 seconds after you've read it--it was never sent.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/11/2016 08:47:50

Bladeswell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2016 : 15:31:51

Back again,

Well I managed to get the bronze pipes out today. In the galley, it seems I cut it off too high and it was still being held by the volcano. When I trimmed off the remaining volcano material the pipe was loose and I didn't need to use the hole saw there.
Almost the same story for the head sink too-hull pipe except that it was necessary to use the long hole saw from the outside. But they are both out now and I am ready to fill those holes. good sailing all.
Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Lee Panza
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2016 : 12:53:17

I enjoyed your blog, Rick. And I'm sure you won't regret going with the Boss's decision.

One thing concerned me enough to write, however. You indicated that you went with galvanized iron pipe fittings above the nipple that connects to the thru-hull. I want to STRONGLY urge you to obtain proper silicon bronze (not brass) fittings. Galvanized iron rots even in fresh water and it's a disaster waiting to happen if you (or a subsequent owner) puts it in salt water, especially with dissimilar metals in contact. Silicon bronze fittings are readily available online if there isn't a chandlery close to you. After all the work you're putting into this project please don't sabatoge it with cheap galvanized iron components. Other than than, keep up the good work.

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

Boomeroo
Navigator

Members Avatar

Australia
128 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2016 : 22:41:55

Lee , very sound advise .
My thru hull was fitted with the Bronze valve and looked great except the Shipwright had a T made up ( for the icebox)and they used a piece of copper pipe . of coarse it is out of sight. I was sick of sink water in the ice chest and planned on removing the T to a sink only outlet...
I was lucky I stuck the mobile phone / camera in and photo,d it..saw lots of white stuff on the 4 yo thru hull . Pull the boat out and the Valve broke away from the thru hull . the thru hull was totally corroded by the effect of the copper .may have lasted 2-6 months
Now all bronze .and sleep at night

Graeme Bishop boomeroo Australia
C25 SK

RickR
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
25 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2016 : 14:25:25

Great advice !!

RickR
Jamestown, NY
81 C25/SK/SR/Trad #2668
"Vind Dansor"

slim
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2016 : 14:54:34

The best looking thru hull is pictured belowe and since i made the comment on using a hole saw to cut out the old ones i thought i would put a picture of that in also.

The best thrtu hull
Is not thru hull at all

Thru hull out
All in one peace and a real clean job also.

1978 - C25 - standard rig - Fixed keel #1040

Edited by - slim on 02/15/2016 14:55:07

Bladeswell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2016 : 15:53:37

Hi All,
My repair looks just about like yours Slim.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Edited by - Bladeswell on 02/17/2016 20:00:01

Bladeswell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2016 : 17:39:41

Hello Again,

Just read something interesting in John C. Payne's book on boat plumbing and water systems. Thought I would share and get your feedback. In his book, he says many have chosen to run the sink drain to a pump and then out to a thru hull on the transom Above the water line. That would make it necessary tho to be very careful about what you allowed to go down the drain and possibly hurt the pump. What do you think...?
Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2016 : 21:15:39

quote:
Originally posted by Bladeswell

...he says many have chosen to run the sink drain to a pump and then out to a thru hull on the transom Above the water line. That would make it necessary tho to be very careful about what you allowed to go down the drain and possibly hurt the pump. What do you think...?

Use a macerator pump (as used for overboard discharge from a head)--it grinds and pumps. (It's also pretty noisy.)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Bladeswell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2016 : 03:53:33

Thanks Dave,
Great idea. I had not thought of that. And I suppose it wouldn't be any noisier than using a garbage disposal at home.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Page: of 3

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.