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How do you get your topsides so shiny?

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sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/17/2016 : 15:27:36

So, I'm perusing this recent thread about trailering: http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=29631

Frank Hopper and Chuck Shaw, wow, your boats have shiny topsides! How do you do it?

Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3312 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2016 : 16:32:27

Probably PolyGlow or VertiGlass - they give a mirror-like shine with an absolute minimum of effort.

Derek Crawford
Chief Measurer C25-250 2008
Previous owner of "This Side UP"
1981 C-25 TR/FK #2262 Used to have an '89 C22 #9483, "Downsized"
San Antonio, Texas

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2016 : 18:16:35

I use a homemade rubbing compound of Bon Ami, dish soap and water then...
Two coats of Fleet Wax

Sorry no short cuts.

John Gisondi
Peregrine #4762

*

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2016 : 18:53:19

quote:
Originally posted by sethp001

Frank Hopper and Chuck Shaw, wow, your boats have shiny topsides! How do you do it?

Hi Seth!

I still do all my own work whenever I can, and I have found approaches that work for me to keep the physical work to a minimum.

I use Poly Glow on the hull. Poly Glow is easy and effective for me, and no polishing, or elbow grease is required. The trick is to get the finish as clean as possible and without marks, etc. before your initial application, else you seal them up inside the Poly Glow. Use Poly Prep to wash the surface, then a sponge to apply the water-like Poly Glow. They tell you to reapply a couple of maintenance coats each year. Easy.

I use SEMCO on my teak for the same reason (no big time elbow grease for sanding, etc.) West Marine carries it. No sanding or varnishing. A good scrub with a detergent and stiff brush, and a small brush after the wood is dry. I re-apply about every 2-3 months. Only takes about 20-30 minutes start to stop.

I use Ablative Bottom paint for the same reason since there is no sanding involved for haulouts. No more sanding for me.... My last haulout last November was after the boat being in the water for 5 years in the warm brackish estuary water of the Banana River here in Florida. A pressure wash, and repairs on about 20 small blisters, and then a recoat with 2 coats of MarPro Super B Pro Ablative, with a 3rd coat on the waterline, and leading edges of the keel, bow and rudder, and back in the water with no sanding except for the blister fixes.

3-4 (maybe 5) years from now I will haulout again and hopefully be able to repeat the same easy tasks for the bottom and hull sides.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

Chuck

Chuck Shaw
Confetti
Cat 25, hull#1
1976 FK/TR

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2016 : 10:51:06

Someone mentioned that Mop&Glo floor polish has the same ingredient as PoliGlow: acrylic.

While I swear by PoliGlow for the hull I wonder whether Mop&Glo would work just as well on the topsides?

As Chuck mentioned above, you have to remove the old PoliGlow using Poly Prep first, then clean, and clean again, and get rid of that oxidation, then clean again, then rinse, then blow away the dust, then apply PoliGlow.

I wonder whether Mop&Glo requires the same prep??? Reading the bottle, it says just sweep and vacuum the floor before using. Squirt some Mop&Glo on the floor then spread using a damp mop or sponge/squeegee. Wait 30 minutes and repeat.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2016 : 14:11:11

Thank you Derek, John, Chuck, and Bruce! Poli Prep and Poli Glo look great!

Do you have any advice for what I could apply to the deck and cockpit?

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2016 : 19:54:27

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

Someone mentioned that Mop&Glo floor polish has the same ingredient as PoliGlow: acrylic.

While I swear by PoliGlow for the hull I wonder whether Mop&Glo would work just as well on the topsides?

I read a post someplace a long while back that asked the same question, and I recall the thread then questioned whether the floor polish had any UV resistant ingredients like Poli Glow is supposed to have. Unfortunately I have slept since reading that a few years ago so can't remember if the question was ever answered?

Chuck

Chuck Shaw
Confetti
Cat 25, hull#1
1976 FK/TR

cshaw
Captain

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460 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2016 : 19:56:32

quote:
Originally posted by sethp001

Thank you Derek, John, Chuck, and Bruce! Poli Prep and Poli Glo look great!

Do you have any advice for what I could apply to the deck and cockpit?

Do NOT use Poli Glow on the decks. It can make it very slippery when wet!!

Chuck

Chuck Shaw
Confetti
Cat 25, hull#1
1976 FK/TR

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2016 : 20:30:07

I guess I forced Bruce onto the Poli Glow track, having used it on Passage for about the last five years I owned her. I didn't find the preparation to be as tedious as he makes it sound--as Chuck says, make sure the marks are gone or they'll be immortalized. Heavy chalking should be scrubbed off--once Poli Glow is on, you won't be having chalking.

I recall applying about 5 coats the first time--the first one virtually disappeared, the next few looked streaky as the material built up, and finally I got what you see from Chuck. Each coat took 30-45 minutes for the whole hull, and could be appied as soon as the previous one was finished. Five coats: 3-4 hours flat. One coat was the most that was needed each year afterward (except where fenders had worn through), but I wasn't in Florida.

On my decks, I've always used Starbrite Nonskid Deck Cleaner with Teflon to scrub them--it dresses them nicely without making them slippery (except when it's still drying). I only use polish or wax on the vertical surfaces.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/18/2016 20:31:31

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4275 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2016 : 21:29:03

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

I guess I forced Bruce onto the Poli Glow track, having used it on Passage for about the last five years I owned her. I didn't find the preparation to be as tedious as he makes it sound--as Chuck says, make sure the marks are gone or they'll be immortalized. Heavy chalking should be scrubbed off--once Poli Glow is on, you won't be having chalking.

I recall applying about 5 coats the first time--the first one virtually disappeared, the next few looked streaky as the material built up, and finally I got what you see from Chuck. Each coat took 30-45 minutes for the whole hull, and could be appied as soon as the previous one was finished. Five coats: 3-4 hours flat. One coat was the most that was needed each year afterward (except where fenders had worn through), but I wasn't in Florida.

On my decks, I've always used Starbrite Nonskid Deck Cleaner with Teflon to scrub them--it dresses them nicely without making them slippery (except when it's still drying). I only use polish or wax on the vertical surfaces.

Agree on the Starbrite Nonskid Deck Cleaner. Works great!

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4275 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2016 : 21:32:46

quote:
Originally posted by cshaw

quote:
Originally posted by sethp001

Frank Hopper and Chuck Shaw, wow, your boats have shiny topsides! How do you do it?

Hi Seth!

I still do all my own work whenever I can, and I have found approaches that work for me to keep the physical work to a minimum.

I use Poly Glow on the hull. Poly Glow is easy and effective for me, and no polishing, or elbow grease is required. The trick is to get the finish as clean as possible and without marks, etc. before your initial application, else you seal them up inside the Poly Glow. Use Poly Prep to wash the surface, then a sponge to apply the water-like Poly Glow. They tell you to reapply a couple of maintenance coats each year. Easy.

I use SEMCO on my teak for the same reason (no big time elbow grease for sanding, etc.) West Marine carries it. No sanding or varnishing. A good scrub with a detergent and stiff brush, and a small brush after the wood is dry. I re-apply about every 2-3 months. Only takes about 20-30 minutes start to stop.

I use Ablative Bottom paint for the same reason since there is no sanding involved for haulouts. No more sanding for me.... My last haulout last November was after the boat being in the water for 5 years in the warm brackish estuary water of the Banana River here in Florida. A pressure wash, and repairs on about 20 small blisters, and then a recoat with 2 coats of MarPro Super B Pro Ablative, with a 3rd coat on the waterline, and leading edges of the keel, bow and rudder, and back in the water with no sanding except for the blister fixes.

3-4 (maybe 5) years from now I will haulout again and hopefully be able to repeat the same easy tasks for the bottom and hull sides.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

Chuck

How bad was the bottom after 5 years? Mines been in the water at Watergate for I think 4 years. The 2 inches or so that I can see down in the water it looks a little "fuzzy" around the edges!

I hate to admit it but my boat had a new bottom job on it when I bought it in October of '07. I've never done a bottom job on it.

Could that cause it to be a couple of knots slower than it used to be?

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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3312 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2016 : 13:10:29

A dirty bottom is extremely effective at killing speed - it doesn't take much junk on it to slow you by at least a knot.

Derek Crawford
Chief Measurer C25-250 2008
Previous owner of "This Side UP"
1981 C-25 TR/FK #2262 Used to have an '89 C22 #9483, "Downsized"
San Antonio, Texas

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2016 : 19:39:03

quote:
Originally posted by GaryB

How bad was the bottom after 5 years? Mines been in the water at Watergate for I think 4 years. The 2 inches or so that I can see down in the water it looks a little "fuzzy" around the edges!

I hate to admit it but my boat had a new bottom job on it when I bought it in October of '07. I've never done a bottom job on it.

Could that cause it to be a couple of knots slower than it used to be?

Ablative paint has to be moved through the water to "ablate" the outer surface and stay clean and toxic. Think of it as a bar of soap... Most also have a slime prevention additive. However, if the boat is not used a lot to allow the paint to wear away, it will slime up, and the slime can provide a surface for growth to start on. If that happens, its a simple thing to get a diver to wipe down the hull with a sponge or towel. That will also rub off some paint, so you cannot be aggressive when doing it like you can be with hard paint. The best thing you can do is to actually USE the boat to keep water passing over the hull/keel/rudder.

I had not used the boat during 2015 as much as normal (except for racing, which I had the bottom sponged off just prior to the races a number of times). So after a couple of months of inactivity the hull "looked" all fouled, but a light pressure wash made it look almost like it had just been painted in most areas.

The waterline had several areas where there was no paint remaining. That is not unusual since wave action (even sitting in the slip) will ablate the paint and slowly wear it away. Thats why you put more coats in areas like the waterline, and the bow, and the leading edges of the keel and rudder.

Different paints will perform differently in different waters. Practical Sailor has done a number of tests (and is still doing them) on different paints. Has a lot of good info and does not seem to be biased (but who can tell? :-)

Derek is quite right about it not taking a lot of fouling to have the increased drag slow you down a lot. When we were in Houston, we kept Confetti at Watergate. I used a Product named "Micron 33" back in the early 80's. We went 12 years one stretch between haul-outs. The last two of those years required monthly scrubs, but I was amazed how long it lasted. However, it was toxic enough they took it off the market for anything less than 80 ft...

By the way, Watergate was a GREAT place to berth Confetti! Ed Campbell and I started the Spring Fling Regattas in the early 90's. We called them the "Un-Ruly Regattas since we did not use a race committee or "racing rules", except for a few common sense rules. It was a rabbit start (slow boats started first, fast boats last). 1st to finish wins so you would record who finished in front of you and behind you. You would have an assigned starting time and were on your honor to not start before then. We would field 30+ boats and have a ball! Then a big post race cookout and party at the main pool area.... Fun Times! Made a nice break in the lots more serious racing with the Galveston Bay Cruising Association!!

Cheers!

Chuck

Chuck Shaw
Confetti
Cat 25, hull#1
1976 FK/TR

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2016 : 04:49:10

I too have been a regular user of Polyglow on the topsides, Starbrite Non-Skid cleaner on the deck non-skid surfaces and ablative/copolymer fouling paint (Micron XT - contains a slime inhibitor). I use Cetol on the companionway boards and exterior wood trim and Howard's products on the interior wood surfaces. I have been doing this for over 10 years and find that for my boat which is in the water all year-round, it is the easiest way with minimal maintenance time to keep the boat fairly well maintained.

I started off using Polyglow every 6 months with initially 6 coats and then 2 coats periodically. But after the first year, I found that just washing the boat periodically and applying Polyglow once annually was sufficient. In order to get the surface ready for the annual treatment, I will wash the boat and then go over the black streaks near the runoffs from the deck to the topsides with a black streak cleaner and then look over the hull for any stains or what appears may be some oxidation and go over that area with PolyPrep before applying the two coats of Polyglow. I have found that after several years or more of using Polyglow, there is a slight tint that forms and so I will generally pick a portion of the topsides, perhaps 25% that I will go over with the Polyprep to reduce the years of applying Polyglow and then apply the 2 coats all-around. Still, this is minimal maintenance for a great shiny finish that lasts all year with perhaps 2 1/2 hours effort for the whole job.

The first year I had used Polyglow in the cockpit area but was not happy with the results - Perhaps because Plyglow does impart a slight tint to what then becomes an off-white color. It took effort to remove all of it that first year. Since then, I have for the last 9 years found that first using an oxidizing cleaner to get the cockpit ready, I then use Starbright Pure Wax on all cockpit surfaces. Since this area is easily accessible to work/maintain, I find that if I keep applying the pure wax every 2 months during the summer season and perhaps 3 months at other times, I can keep the cockpit in great condition. Eventually, after a year or or more, I might have to go over portions of the cockpit with a polish or oxidizing cleaner before going with the pure wax again but just for the cockpit area, this seems to work best for me.

The bottom is a story in itself. The snapshot is that I use Micron XT for the upper Potomac River which mostly is a slime producer (no barnacles) and a year of slime can slow you up at least 1 - 1 1/2 knots. The Micron Xt lasts for ~ 3-4 seasons with an annual pressure wash.

About 3-4 years ago, after inspecting many blisters over the years that were forming on the bottom, I had to make the decision if I was going to do something about it or just go for another application of Micron XT. The blisters do not form on all boats but on mine, they were not paint blisters and thru the years, seem to multiply and the ones that existed growing from a dime size to a nickel or quarter size. These did not appear to be just cosmetic blisters - I was concerned that they went into the laminate. I checked what some others had paid for a blister repair and the cost was like buying another used Catalina 25 ! I decided to bite the bullet after discussing with a local yard a little south down the Potomac River. My thought was that I used the boat a lot each year and waterproofing the bottom, if it came out good, would be like getting a better than new bottom. Also, us sailors that sail these "good old boats" need to sometimes make the investment since the boat is like family and not wanting to discard it. The bottom turned out much worse than I originally thought as the yard grinded down the blisters and found blisters connected to blisters and going significantly into the laminate. Seemed like each area they worked on, they then wound up removing 1-2 foot sections into the laminate This is after first opening all the blisters in the Fall and then grinding it all out during the Jan-March timeframe. The windup was that what seemed to be about 1/3 of the bottom area in 1-2 foot swaths were grinded away. 7 coats of Interlux Interprotect were applied followed by 2 coats of Micron XT. The bottom was fully contoured, restored and having to repaint the bottom last Fall after 3-4 years since the bottom was restored, the bottom remains in fine shape. Back when I had the bottom restored, it was like paying for another boat - cost ~ $7K but I had checked out what some others had paid for a similar effort prior to going ahead with the project and so it was in line with other estimates but originaly I thought I would get off $2K less since I did not think it was so severe...until they started grinding away. I was not prepared to do this myself, although, obviously it would have saved the tedious labor involved. But I was down there probably 3-4 days a week to check the continual progress and so I know the effort they went thru and it was considerable.
I have a lot fo detailed photos from start to finish in case anyone is interested - They are on my website.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 01/20/2016 04:55:50

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2016 : 09:06:59

I've migrated from wax to Nu Finish for my newer (9 years old) boat as well as my car. Polymer finishes outlast wax and are way less work. Nu Finish might not be as good for restoring old gelcoat as Poli Glow, but I like it on this boat--hopefully it'll keep the gelcoat from getting "old". I hope it will suffice for the duration...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2016 : 17:26:56

The Vert Glass that I used is out of business. Maintenance is easier on a wing keel so my bottom and top sides were easy to do.

Frank Hopper

bigelowp
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1736 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2016 : 19:12:53

For years I polished my own topsides using Collinite polishes, The boat looked fine -- to me. Then two years ago, for a variety o reasons I had the yard polish the topsides. What a difference! They used buffers (I used my upper arms) and had experienced workers. The difference was night and day. So, it may not be the polish, but how it is done that makes the difference.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2016 : 10:22:14

Speaking of Collinite products, Practical Sailor's tests have shown that their Insulator Wax (formulated for power lines, I believe) performed best--better than Fleet Wax. I've used it--Defender carries it--it's about the same to apply as Fleet, and looks as good to my eye. (But I'm easy--my philosophy is, "It's a boat--not a diamond broach!"

)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/24/2016 10:23:24

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2016 : 11:15:57

I put the Fleet Wax on by hand and then take it of with a buffer.

John Gisondi
Peregrine #4762

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 01/24/2016 : 12:02:54

quote:
Originally posted by bigelowp

For years I polished my own topsides using Collinite polishes, The boat looked fine -- to me. Then two years ago, for a variety o reasons I had the yard polish the topsides. What a difference! They used buffers (I used my upper arms) and had experienced workers. The difference was night and day. So, it may not be the polish, but how it is done that makes the difference.

It takes some fairly serious measures to dig out years of dirt and chalking that get embedded into the finish. When I bought my C&C 35, I had the yard polish and wax it, using their commercial grade buffer. That got rid of the old dirt and chalking, and was well worth the cost. Since then, I wash the boat first, and then wax it myself, once a year, using Meguiars Flagship Marine Cleaner and Wax. I apply one thin coat by hand and rub it off with a Turtle Wax electric buffer ($31. at Walmart). The Meguiars is a little pricier than most polishes, but it's so easy to apply and remove that it's well worth it. The shine isn't as glossy as PoliGlow, but you can certainly see your reflection in it. It doesn't build up through the years, so you'll never have to strip it off, and it looks good for a whole year.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 01/24/2016 12:03:36

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2016 : 09:43:04

http://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/tips-for-a-great-buff-wax.117266/

Stu
1986 C34 #224 "Aquavite"
Cowichan Bay, BC Maple Bay Marina
(formerly San Francisco)
(formerly C25 #2459 "Capricorn Two")

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2016 : 14:51:48

quote:
Originally posted by Stu Jackson C34

http://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/tips-for-a-great-buff-wax.117266/

Wow, this guy is serious.

I thought I was going the extra mile with Fleet Wax and the same Makita but he goes the next step to "show car" level with glazing.
I think I'll stay with my three steps.

1- Through wash
2 - Rubbing compound (DYI)
3 - 2 coats of Fleet Wax

John Gisondi
Peregrine #4762

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2016 : 06:28:54

quote:
Originally posted by Peregrine

...but he goes the next step to "show car" level with glazing.

Frankly, I don't get it. The prettiest boats around here are wooden hulled schooners, ketches, yawls, and cutters--not plastic boats you can shave next to. My objective each spring is to get a uniform, dark green to start the season--no small effort. The fact that there is some reflectivity when I'm done is nice, but it's a boat!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/26/2016 06:30:23

glivs
Admiral

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Response Posted - 01/26/2016 : 17:48:58

Just to add to what has already been noted, I have used a liquid wax that contains Teflon (PTFE) for years and in our northern climate have been very pleased with its ease of application, durability and shine. As is probably intuitive, however, the shine largely comes from the gelcoat, not the wax. Early on I compounded and polished by hand to remove oxidation and things looked quite good after the second season although patchy. I then tried the oven cleaner trick but with little success. I next tried Collinite 920 fiberglass cleaner and have continued ever sense. This stuff with a microfiber cloth does wonders to brighten up the gelcoat. Probably not in the same league as if using a good buffer and polish approach but easy to use. I then wax and follow up using an inexpensive buffer. Even the guys at the boatyard have complimented me on the results.

Collinite 920

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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1736 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2016 : 04:56:12

. . . . then again, while i love seeing a shiny topside, as Limerick is 36 years old and sits on a mooring, all I really strive for is to pass the 20 foot test -- so I am not embarrassed when those just passing by, wearing their sunglasses look!!!!!!

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2016 : 17:46:43

Thank you again Derek, John, Chuck, Bruce, Dave, and everyone else who recommended Poli Glow. Following your recommendation turned out great! I took a short video of my results with Poli Glow. See this thread below if you care to see it. Cheers!

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=29912

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