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Deborah
1st Mate

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USA
36 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/31/2015 : 14:43:14

What material are the sails made of on a 1985 25 ?

1985 Catalina 25 Fin Keel #5160
"Mottley Crew"
Spring Grove, IL

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2015 : 15:21:13

Most modern sails are made of either dacron (jibs and mainsails), nylon (spinnakers and light air sails), and laminates (racing sails). You can buy dacron and nylon sailcloth from Sailrite, at this link: http://www.sailrite.com/

Sailrite sells kits for those who want to make their own sails, but they require an industrial strength sewing machine. People who have made Sailrite sails seem to like the results. I've never known of an individual making racing sails from laminates.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2015 : 19:30:25

The original sail would have been Dacron. As noted, there are other materials now used for sails however for most the traditional Dacron materials are most often used and are the best value.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2015 : 10:15:35

Dacron it is... However, there's Dacron, there's Dacron, there's Dacron, and there's more Dacron. The Sailrite site shows a variety of weaves and weights--I don't know whose cloth it is. Challenge is about the biggest name, and there are a few other big ones.

The primary trade-offs are resistance to stretch (longevity) versus cost. Then there's weight, where the ideal depends on your usage and conditions. Ordinarily, a sailmaker takes you through the options--if you're just buying the cloth, maybe somebody like Sailrite can lead you to the right choice.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/01/2015 10:18:01

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2015 : 10:19:33

Agree with Dave's posting. Dacron is not a one type matl, it comes in various weave densities and then the matl is treated with a coating that adds to the weight. Many of the less expensive Dacron sail cloths will stretch more readily when over time are subjected to moderate breezes. Given a smaller weave count fabric, sailcloth mfrs may then offer that grade with different weight resin. The resin helps reduce the stretch but only temporarily. For those that mostly sail in lighter winds and/or sail infrequently, the lower eave count Dacron sails probably work out fine. I suspect that Catalina original sails are made with a lower weave count to control costs. Dacron sailcloth, though, last a real long time...many may not even realize the sail has started to or has stretched since the actual fabric may last 15-20 years or so before it actually tears.

What I can tell you is that Quantum and Mack sailmakers primarily use Challenge High Aspect Dacron sailcloth. High Aspect is made to a very high weave count and as a result, these sails utilize stitching that is also less prone to stretching to match the properties of the sails. Since the weave count is higher, the weight of the sails is heavier and generally the resin utilized is less since the sail is naturally less prone to stretching.

You can check out the Challenge website for details as to the 4-5 different grades of Dacron sailcloth that they make. The highest grade, I believe, is still their Challenge Marblehead Dacron sailcloth and practical sailor just had an article on Head sails and in it it indicated that Port Townsend Sailmakers utilize Marblehead sailcloth. Dacron sails made out of Marblehead will probably be 2-3 times as expensive as sails made out of the lower cost Dacron...and so there is quite a difference in cost depending on what grade Dacron weave the sails are made from.

An alternate to read about the different grades of sailcloth, rcmd go to the Mack Sailmakers website. Mack sails are out of Florida. They have an excellent website that provides details on Dacron sailcloth.

But the short answer is that Catalina provides the stock original sails made out of Dacron sailcloth.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2015 : 17:15:06

And then there is that rhetorical question/debate I have had over many years with non-racers that goes: is it better to spend twice as much for better sail cloth that will last twice as long, or pay half as much for a "standard" sailcloth twice as often? The answer (after a beer or two) is always "yes" . . . . . but it does make more sense of the Rolly Tasker's of the world.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2015 : 20:48:44

A debate over sails at different costs from different sailmakers is sort of similar to the debate over whether to buy a 4 stroke outboard from one mfr vs another based on cost...except for one main distinction: Those deciding on an outboard generally do not rely only on cost and a person making a recommendation.Most also consider other factors such as weight, location of the controls, if it has a manual or auto choke, some go by more specific considerations such as if many have had issues with the outboard susceptible to clogging, etc. But when individuals go to buy a sail, the main factor they generally never compare one against another and that is what they are paying for...which is mostly sailcloth. Very few look into any characteristics of the primary thing they are buying but when buying an outboard, a fish finder, a tiller pilot....so many more review specific characteristics of their purchase. I just find it....interesting.

There are fine reasons for buying a less expensive sail and it probably will serve fine for the intended purpose. There are only a few reasons to buy a sail that is less prone to stretching which may double the cost of the purchase. Those that race and depending on how psyched they are about it and their cost reserves, will spend plenty on sails...never mind just considering only Dacron. In my case, I oftentimes have to do frequent tacking to go up and down the river and sometimes limits by tidal effects to staying in the channel - A blown out sail is definitely not efficient and it,s noticeable in racing or if frequently tacking going against tide and light winds. But many in open waters and mainly day sail/cruise...So sailcloth is a minor decision. Another factor is how often a person sails and the more frequently in moderate/high winds. Let's face it...some only sail perhaps 15 times a season....while others may sail more than 50 times a season. If you discuss the frequency you sail with a sailmaker, there is a good chance they will make different recommendations based on that fact alone.
But here is probably the best reason to consider going with a less expensive sail from a respected sailmaker - Many sell their boats after only 5 Years or so !

We all make decisions as to what we buy and depending on what we are buying - We may decide to go cheaply on some purchases and more expensive on other purchases. Some may buy auto-inflatable pfd vests and others get the regular pfd foam vests or those cheapy bulky pfd's. But...even on these purchases, I am sure everyone checked certain characteristics - What weight/buoyancy it's rated for, if it is an auto-inflate...are the replacement pills/CO2 packs readily available for it or the hydrostatics gage/CO2 replacements, does it fit well, things like that. My only issue is that some just indicate they bought $1000 worth of sails and don't know what they exactly bought. Just saying...maybe it pays to see if one mfr's $500 main sail...is it made out of better or lower quality sailcloth compared to another mfr's $500 Main sail?

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 11/03/2015 20:55:07

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2015 : 19:32:06

Larry: fully agree on your well stated message. One reason I have used Ullman/Venture as a sail loft is the expertise that Gary has with Catalina boats: he advises relative to boat and intended use. Sailcloth is a key factor but so is what type of sailing you will be doing and budget. I guess that is one of the fun aspects to our love of sailing!

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

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