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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Pushpit

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Phredde
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125 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/16/2015 : 11:22:00

Well - we got Phredde back with her new red bottom paint. She is looking much better. There was only one real mishap. Somehow the starboard pushpit stanchion was broken in the process. The one closest to the starboard winch was sheared off right at the base. The guys at the yard couldn't imagine how that could happen as the lifeline gate was open and the travel lift straps are more amidships.

But I have always secured the tiller with a length of rope wrapped around the front part of the tiller handle and looped over the front portion of the pushpit on each side. I suppose that could stress the weld over time, especially in my marina where there can be a lot of surge. Then maybe some force on the tiller while it was tied that way during the bottom job did the rest. It's a mystery.

Either way, they agreed to "split it" with me. Meaning if I can get the pushpit off and down to their shop they will weld it for me, polish it up, and supply new screws and bedding.

Having replaced one of the other single stanchions before myself, I thought that was doable. Until I started looking for access. Three of the four pushpit stanchions are pretty easily reachable via the access plates or the dumpster.

But has anyone ever replaced the pushpit? Or tried to access the rear, port, pushpit stanchion? It looks like my only hope is from the quarter berth with a mirror and a very long socket extender. I didn't have a mirror at the boat yesterday, but will be giving it a try. While its semi secure with three of four stanchions, I'd like to get it fixed before the yard forgets.

I am also hoping to avoid the fill and drill if the holes are in good shape. Its at least 12 screws.

Any advice is appreciated.

And in the mean time, the advice they gave me, which I will pass on to you guys too, is to not secure the tiller to the pushpit. It's not meant to take the load. They recommend securing it to the cleats. This could be CYA BS, but thought I would pass it on.

Thank you -

Phredde

Phredde
Catalina 25
San Francisco

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2015 : 12:22:03

quote:
Originally posted by Phredde

... has anyone ever replaced the pushpit? Or tried to access the rear, port, pushpit stanchion? It looks like my only hope is from the quarter berth with a mirror and a very long socket extender. I didn't have a mirror at the boat yesterday, but will be giving it a try.

If I were you, that would be my first approach. If that doesn't work, then I think you could cut a round hole in the gas tank locker, reach it through that hole, and then close the hole by installing a Beckson plate in it. I haven't had to do it, but don't see why it couldn't be done that way.

quote:
I am also hoping to avoid the fill and drill if the holes are in good shape. Its at least 12 screws.

I don't know if the gunwale in that area is cored or not. If it isn't cored, then there's no need to drill and fill. If it's cored, and the coring is solid, then you can probably get by caulking it well. I have been using butyl tape instead of caulk to re-bed deck hardware, and prefer it to caulk.

quote:
And in the mean time, the advice they gave me, which I will pass on to you guys too, is to not secure the tiller to the pushpit. It's not meant to take the load. They recommend securing it to the cleats. This could be CYA BS, but thought I would pass it on.

IMO, that's nonsense. The pushpit is more than strong enough to withstand any "stress" caused by a line holding the tiller.

I think there's an easier, better way to secure the tiller. I pulled the mainsheet traveler up to starboard. That left the starboard traveler line long. I pulled the tiller all the way to starboard, wrapped the line around it, and then cleated the line in the starboard traveler cleat. That held my tiller securely for the 23 years that I owned the boat. Other benefits are that you don't have to dig the line out of a locker each time you want to use it. You're simply using the hardware and line that are already there. Another benefit is that you won't have a line across the cockpit, ready to trip someone, and blocking the cockpit, and likewise the tiller won't be bisecting the cockpit. There will be no obstruction caused by the tiller to your movement around the cockpit.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2015 : 16:33:51

My understanding is that the pushpit bases that are on top of the transom are screwed in. I could be wrong having not removed one myself but Bruce(Voyager) had to replace his on 'Passage' so maybe he can verify this.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Lee Panza
Captain

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465 Posts

Response Posted - 07/19/2015 : 18:43:01

If this isn't too late to help, I can confirm Scott's understanding.

There are horizontal plates embedded in the top of the transom, and the two screws holding each of the stanchion bases are tapped into them. I don't know if the plates are bronze or brass (the drill chips came up pretty yellow when I installed some hardware next to the bases), but it's fairly soft.

I can confirm now that the screws do not extend into the hollow space between the inner and outer surfaces of the transom. Awhile back I had cut access holes and covered them with louvered plates, so this weekend I pulled one to check.

Good luck. BTW, if you have any other Q's about how a Cat-25 is put together, I've been cuttin' and drillin' and otherwise tearing into my boat for a few years now; eventually I expect to have access to all hidden spaces. I'm in the Brisbane / Oyster Point area of the northern Peninsula, so if you ever want to actually see what lies beneath the surface you can come look.

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 07/19/2015 : 18:51:39

BTW; if the same yard that broke your pushpit is going to weld it up, here's a word of caution. When welding a cumbersome item like this it's critical to get everything aligned properly before tacking it together, or else it won't go back in the same screw holes. Make sure it's understood that if you can't get the pushpit back on after they're done with it they'll suffer legal consequences. Any yard that feeds their customer a line of BS about lashing the tiller to it having caused it to fail doesn't sound like people who would stand behind their workmanship in fixing this.

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2015 : 17:23:10

What a crock! They actually had the (select adjective of your choice) to tell you they have no idea how that got broken and that a line wrapped around the stanchion and the tiller might have caused the stanchion to break, a stainless steel stanchion? Really?

If that's the case I'm sure glad you never lost your balance and fell against that stanchion while out sailing!

The bottom line is the tiller or the line would have snapped long before that stanchion broke!

My guess is someone or something either fell against or got hooked on the stanchion and broke it. Maybe one of the slings for the travel lift got hooked on the open gate as they were getting it in position? They are very stiff and heavy.

My opinion is this should 100% be on their back, not yours.

I'd tell them to hop there happy little behinds over to your slip and either weld it while it's on the boat or at least tack it before you remove the stanchion so it will fit back together at the correct angles.

A marine yard should have a small portable welder in their inventory. If not, they can go rent one since they broke your stanchion while the boat was in their custody.

BTW... this was not aimed at you. I just can't believe they would have the guts to even try to pass this off the way they did.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - GaryB on 07/21/2015 17:30:58

Phredde
Navigator

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125 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2015 : 16:19:28

Thank you all for the input. All is well now. Yes the screws securing the pushpit into the transom were easy, they go into a plate as described. The other stanchions are accessible from the quarter berth and the dumpster locker. I got the whole thing off by myself, got it down to the yard and they welded it as promised. They had marked the alignment before I left, so it lined up perfectly when reinstalled. The only net damage was a few scratches to my '92 convertible - I should have better protected the paint. And I still need to re-connect the wiring for the stern running light. But otherwise I was happy with the outcome and their response.

I am no expert, but I doubt a portable welder would have worked,it was right at the base which is pretty close to fiberglass and the screws. I also got to thinking: I left the boat at their docks on a Sunday, so it would have gone through a tidal cycle. I don't have a depth finder and did not check. But I suppose it's possible that the boat grounded at low tide causing the tiller to move with force. The line I was using to secure the tiller was tight and pretty sturdy (3/8?). So if I take them at their word, I suppose that might be one possible explanation. But I still wonder...

Either way, Phredde is back in action at least for daytime sailing.

As an added bonus I found out that my admiral a) does fit into the dumpster locker when necessary, but b) is not much of an electrician, hence the wiring still to be done.

Phredde

Phredde
Catalina 25
San Francisco

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