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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Rudder repair or replace?

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pearson39b
1st Mate

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93 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/28/2015 : 09:07:58

The balanced fiberglass rudder on my recently purchased C-25 is split down the leading edge, so I'm mulling over buying a new one or trying to fix this one. I bought the boat from a non-profit that had received it as a donation, so I know little about it's recent history or P.O. From it's condition, I would be surprised if it had been in the water in the past two years, so I'm hoping the rudder is pretty well dried out. Problem is, the boat is stored in a barn 2000 miles away, and I won't see it until spring even though I'm trying to prioritize my repair projects to let me get it at least minimally seaworthy for some shake-down cruises this summer.

After this long-winded preface, I'm looking for some help with my buy/fix decision. I've already looked at some older posts on the subject, and a lot of repondents were advising the buy-new option. Obviously that would be the quickest solution, but they ain't cheap, and there are going to be a lot of other expenses (like rigging) that are going to draw down the fix-up kitty pretty fast.

So, any input more recent than 2008 would be much appreciated, either for fixing or the most appropriate replacement... Anybody?

Sailor Jerry
C-25 "Sea Song"
1978, SK, Std.
Pepin, WI

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2015 : 10:13:23

The original, non-balanced rudder was easier to repair than the balanced rudder. I repaired my unbalanced rudder and got 8-10 more years of hard use out of it. I never tried to repair a balanced rudder, but others here have said they didn't have as much success with them.

Personally, if the rudder isn't deformed, I would probably try to repair it, and then sail it really hard, grossly overpowered, in local waters, to see if it is robust enough to trust. If it passes that test, then I'd sail it in local waters and not worry about it. But, even if it passes the test, I still wouldn't trust it on a cruise where you might encounter heavy weather in isolated or exposed waters.

In the meanwhile, if the repair holds up, I'd keep an eye on our swap meet for a used rudder. You don't see them often, but I found a nice balanced rudder for $150. For as long as I owned the boat, I used the old rudder for putzing around the lake, and used the balanced rudder to race.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2015 : 10:18:54

Greetings Sailor Jerry!

Sharing model year, body of water(s) the boat will be sailed on, and whether the rudder was exposed to freezing temperatures will impact the replies you may receive here . . .

On my 1981 C25 I ran the open seam on a table saw, 60+ tooth carbide blade, ~1" deep then filled with West System epoxy mixed with one of their fillers (see their literature). That repair was made over 10 years ago and the rudder is still in use.

I sail on an inland lake, kept the rudder from freezing in the off- season. You've probably seen some of the posts describing rudder failures.

1989 C25 TR/WK, #5822
1973 McVay Minuet 19
1975 Jester 12
1981 C25 SR/SK, #2428
1981 C22 SR/SK,
Tanzer 16
Sunfish

"There is nothing, absolutely nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats." Kenneth Grahame

Edited by - OJ on 01/28/2015 12:00:14

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2015 : 12:47:35

I poured West Systems G-flex into a front seam on mine Oct of 2013. I was doing the bottom job and had the rudder out in the sun to dry out for a coupla weeks. Havn't really looked at it to see how it is doing.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Edited by - redeye on 01/28/2015 12:50:09

pearson39b
1st Mate

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93 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2015 : 13:13:21

My C-25 is a 1978, swing-keel model, and it came from Michigan so I'm reasonably certain it's always been in fresh water. I'll be putting it in Lake Pepin with the possibility of trailering it to the Apostle Islands from time to time. No salt water cruising planned for the foreseeable future.

I would expect the rudder may well have been stored in freezing temperatures, but that's only a guess. Topsides are heavily oxidized, so I have to assume outdoor storage withut a lot of protection for most of it's life.

Sailor Jerry
C-25 "Sea Song"
1978, SK, Std.
Pepin, WI

Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2015 : 14:25:46

I would repair it. I ripped the lower gudgeons out of my original rudder. Ground out the core and refilled with epoxy + filler (mixed up to the consistency of peanut butter); put a couple of straps of cloth around it; added a fresh layer of gel coat . Better than new - that's the beauty of fiberglass.

former Captain of Heartbeat
Catalina 25 Tall
#4816

pearson39b
1st Mate

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93 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2015 : 14:20:26

Hey Heartbeat, Wondering how you "ground out the core?" Does that mean removing just the interior core material that supported the pintles? Having a hard time visualizing. Did you take any photos?

Sailor Jerry
C-25 "Sea Song"
1978, SK, Std.
Pepin, WI

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2015 : 14:54:36

quote:
Originally posted by Heartbeat

. . . refilled with epoxy + filler (mixed up to the consistency of peanut butter) . . .

The "consistency of peanut butter" is key - else the mixture may well sag. Don't ask how I know

Marine Tex might be another good candidate . . . shape and smooth with wax paper before it cures = minimal sanding.

Good luck!

Edited by - OJ on 01/29/2015 16:26:14

pearson39b
1st Mate

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93 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2015 : 19:42:23

OJ, What I so like about this forum is the willingness of contributors to comment with advice followed by "Don't ask me how I know." We all know what that signifies, and having been there and done that, I really appreciate the experience sharing that saves me from the steep learning curve mistakes. Thank you....

Sailor Jerry
C-25 "Sea Song"
1978, SK, Std.
Pepin, WI

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2015 : 04:35:57

Yepper.. I kinda skipped a step or two. The thing to do ( as Heartbeat did ) would be to cut out the crack to get a good fresh edge for the resin to grip. I used a syringe in 70 degree weather to add the gflex to the top edge and let it flow down into the crack, adding more multiple times over several hours as it went in. Gflex does not have a uv inhibitor so sanding down and adding a layer of gelcoat would be indicated.

Add that to my projects

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2015 : 07:43:56

quote:
Originally posted by pearson39b

OJ, What I so like about this forum is the willingness of contributors to comment with advice followed by "Don't ask me how I know." We all know what that signifies, and having been there and done that, I really appreciate the experience sharing that saves me from the steep learning curve mistakes. Thank you....

A couple of weeks ago I watched a YouTube video on replacing a clothes dryer motor. What I forgot to do was read the comments section - which borderline criticized the author for not mentioning the strong likelihood of needing to replace the plastic fan blade that become seized onto the motor shaft. The author's reply, "we make our videos using new appliances."

Here, we strive to offer real world advice . . .

Edited by - OJ on 01/30/2015 08:16:44

Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2015 : 14:19:21

quote:
Originally posted by pearson39b

Hey Heartbeat, Wondering how you "ground out the core?" Does that mean removing just the interior core material that supported the pintles? Having a hard time visualizing. Did you take any photos?

I did it 15 years ago, so if I had any pictures they would have been non-digital. If I find anything, I'll scan, but that won't be a quick response.

The rudder has a foam core. I think the first owner of Heartbeat had a problem at one point and did some repair and I (with some help from a sandbar) undid the repair.

So yes, I ground out all of the foam in the area of the lower gudgeons. The foam is fairly thick, so I went in with my grinder, dremmel, drill (et al) and cleared anything I saw that was suspect. I did get into the 'blade' of the rudder. I filled in the space that was formerly core with the 'peanut butter' mixture. Let it set up and grind it smooth and make sure you have it the way you want it. If it's not right, grind it back out again and start over.

It is probably a little heavier, but it is one heck of a lot stronger.

Wrap the area with new glass and epoxy. Sand smooth, and lay a layer of epoxy. Sand smooth.

I went with gel coat to finish. I applied the gel coat and used the 'green stuff' ( West sells it - gel coat hardener or something - just paint it on) to isolate it from the air to make it cure. Wash it off with water the next day.

Sand the gel coat to the surface you want. If you bust through it to the expoxy just grind it down and start over. (Yeah, it took me a couple of the 'grind down' steps.)

Finish by sanding/polishing (1000 grit and then a buffer) that shiny new gel coat and it's better than new.

Couple things to remember:
-If you screw up, you are only out your time and the materials.
-It's fiberglass. Grind it away and start over if you don't like it.
-Worst case: you can buy a new rudder from CD.

I once saw a boat that was involved in a high-wind t-bone incident on the first day of a three day race. Punctured all the way through the port side about a foot wide maybe 6 inches above the waterline and 4 feet from the stern. (Not a Catalina - a T10?) Anyway, the second day of the race they were back out racing with a (rather ugly) repair - but it was sound and it held water. The third day it was still ugly, but it was smooth, sound, and still holding water. By the next weekend they had the repair all completed and the gel back in shape. I had to look twice to verify it was the same boat!

You can do it!

Matt

former Captain of Heartbeat
Catalina 25 Tall
#4816

Edited by - Heartbeat on 02/02/2015 14:20:25

pearson39b
1st Mate

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93 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2015 : 10:18:58

Some excellent information here, and I'm now persuaded to try and repair the rudder. Thanks to all of you who responded to my plea for advice and particularly Matt for the detailed rundown on his repair project.

I'll try to remember to report back on my success (or lack thereof!) when I get back to the boat in the spring....

Sailor Jerry
C-25 "Sea Song"
1978, SK, Std.
Pepin, WI

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