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Newbie Bottom Paint and Rudder Questions

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Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/04/2014 : 18:52:20

First, I apologize if this has been discussed recently... I can't get the search function to work for me.

A little background on the boat... it's used on a midwest lake where it sits in a slip during the season and on a trailer indoors in the winter.

We just pulled the boat for the winter and pressure washed off most of what was left of the ablative bottom paint. Strangely enough, the rudder had bottom paint on it when we purchased it, also. We also discovered a barrier coat under the paint that seems to be in great condition.

First question: Should the rudder have bottom paint on it? It doesn't have a barrier coat and I'm wondering if I should just sand, polish and buff the gel coat the best I can?

Second question: With the current barrier coat, should I reapply the ablative bottom paint or is it possible to apply VC17 over barrier coat? Would I WANT to apply VC17 over a barrier coat? Is there an advantage to VC17 or ablative?

I'm thinking of just reapplying the ablative paint and let it be but I'm kinda fussy so when I decide to just go ablative today I question my decision tomorrow.

Here she is with the barrier coat showing:

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2014 : 21:34:06

Sounds like VC17 might be right in your case. The rudder needs bottom paint since it stays submerged. I'll leave it to VC17 users to address application.

Edited by - on

Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2014 : 03:11:22

Can the barrier coat be sanded smooth? To get the beautiful results from VC17 that I'm used to seeing ,the barrier coat will need sanding for sure.

Edited by - on

jduck00
Captain

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USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2014 : 04:11:22

I recently did the bottom on my boat and spent quite a few hours researching paints. From what I've read VC17 has to go in the water quickly if you want the bio protection. If you trailer sail or have the boat out of the water you will want a self polishing ablative paint. I used Seahawk Cukote and I'm happy with it. Not near as pretty as VC17, but it keeps the barnacles off.

Barrier coats aren't typically that thick, 10 mils typically from the directions I've read from various manufacturers. You cant do much sanding on them. You could add barrier coat in the low spots and then sand them smooth.

Deciding on a paint can be tough. There are no lack of opinions on the internet. This is just mine.

Edited by - on

Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2014 : 04:18:39

The barrier coat felt like it had some give to it when pushed with a finger nail which lead me to believe it wasn't sandable. The boat also came with almost a gallon of bottom paint although I haven't opened the can to check its condition. I'll have to check the brand after work today.

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2014 : 09:13:01

Rub your face on a glass window of your car, now rub your face against the asphalt parking lot. Which finish do you want on your boat? Barrier coat is epoxy (usually light gray) and VERY hard, unless it is VC TAR which no one uses. I worry that you have blown off a bad layer of ablative only to get down to a better layer of ablative or a hard paint if you are lucky.
(Fresh water) Ablative paint is for people without trailers who cannot haul their boat when they want. VC 17 is for people who can do their own maintenance. VC 17 works out to be cheaper and SO MUCH FASTER AND EASIER to apply that ablative does not enter the equation. As for time out of the water... I would need to see Duck's sources because at our club VC 17 has proved to be the best paint for people who winter on trailers.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2014 : 10:04:21

quote:
Originally posted by pastmember

... Barrier coat is epoxy (usually light gray) and VERY hard, unless it is VC TAR which no one uses. I worry that you have blown off a bad layer of ablative only to get down to a better layer of ablative or a hard paint if you are lucky...

Looking at your picture above I'm thinking that is not a barrier coat. I've seen some brand new Catalina's being delivered to the yard in my marina this year and they only have a barrier coat on them from the factory. As mentioned above it is grey (a very light grey).

What I see in your picture above does not look anything like the barrier coat coming from the factory now. Looks very similar to what little ablative is left on my boat.

Edited by - on

Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2014 : 10:54:39

Well, now I'm confused because I had an individual who owned a Precision/Hunter dealership for 20 years tell me that it looked like I had a barrier coat mistakenly painted to the water line. I later had a marina employee/sailboat owner comment on the barrier coat under the ablative paint(which is now gone). I've seen ablative paint and what's left does not look like ablative paint to my inexperienced eyes, at least what was on it when I splashed it this summer.

Edited by - Kper on 10/05/2014 10:55:18

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2014 : 11:04:39

Our hull had VC-17 on it when we got it. It was kept in a high mountain lake in OR (6000' + I believe), so very cold water with little growth. We day sailed our boat at first, and VC-17 was great, easy to keep looking great, a quart could cover the entire bottom and you'd be done in no time.

However, SL is now kept in a brackish water environment year round, and that didn't work out so well as far as barnacle, mussel and other sea growth. The last time we pulled it out, the growth was let's say, "thick". I pressure washed off what I could (the mussels & most of the growth), but the barnacles weren't going anywhere.

I opted to soda blast my boat, something I'd do again, as long as I paid someone else to do the actual work, or if I could rent a commercial soda blaster. Even then I think I'd pay someone else to do it.

We opted for Pettit Trinidad SR (Slime Release), which a friend who keeps his 43' Polaris about a hundred yards from ours recommended. So far we've got about three years on the paint, and virtually zero growth other than some green slime which comes off each time we sail. The only place there's significant growth is on the very bottom of the keel where I couldn't get any paint at all. However, at the places where the six pads of our trailer sit, I couldn't get any paint either, but the proximity of the patches to lots of painted surface seems to be keeping them almost free of growth of any kind, which pleasantly surprised me. There are caveats to a hard paint like Trinidad, you only get about a two week window to get your hull in the water, or it'll get so hard the copper won't be able to leach out & give you the biocide effect you want. If you go over two weeks, you have to do a scuff & recoat which is an expensive mistake. It goes for about $250/gallon last time I bought it.

I definitely put a coat on our rudder, and deliberately let it dry for longer than the prescribed two weeks to see what happened (figured it was relatively easy to recoat if necessary). It gets more growth than the hull, but I sloughs off when we sail, or I can pretty easily scrub it off with a brush on a pole.

Edited by - on

Martin Nelick
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2014 : 12:28:54

Since you are hauling your boat annually, you can take advantage of important hull maintenance that many like to ignore. This gives you tons of options for paints. I have never used VC17, but I know it is very popular on inland lakes and leaves an attractive finish.

My boat used to be a freshwater boat and the PO applied Interlux Micron Extra (Ablative). I have continued to use this paint in the Bahamas. This paint is moderately expensive, but essentially does two things:

1 - Like most antifouling paints it leeches a biocide that inhibits growth of scum and algae.

2 - Gradually "self-polishes" or sheds itself not allowing barnacles and other critters to stick.

I wipe down the hull about 1-2 times month like many cruisers here. I only come across a thin film of scum that I can wipe away with my hand. That is always nice.

HOWEVER, the performance of ablative paints are directly related to the thickness in which they are applied. The thicker it is, the longer it will last. I applied 1.5 gallons and It will probably last one year here. After one year there will be nothing left but barrier coat. This makes prep work for reapplication less grueling.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2014 : 13:58:09

Here is an article on VC17. Pay attention to the prep work because it can't be applied over any other bottom paint.http://www.boat-project.com/otherproj/vc17.htm

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sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2014 : 21:13:54

Kyle,

I think you're talking about VC-17m, if so I can talk about it. If you're talking about the VC-17 Offshore product, I have no idea.

A few years ago, I stripped the PO's ablative paint down to the gelcoat, applied the recommended layers of Interlux barrier paint (can't remember the number and don't feel like looking it up), and then applied the recommended initial two coats of VC-17m without sanding as recommended.

The barrier paint was softer to the touch than the gelcoat, even when completely dry. One question that may help determine if you have a barrier coat or even need one: do you have any blisters? If so, how many and how big? I had a couple of small blisters, so I fixed them and applied the barrier coats to make sure I did not get any more. If you don't have any blisters, then that's a clear sign that you already have or don't need a barrier coat. On the other hand if you have blisters, that would indicate that you don't have a barrier coat or whatever barrier coat you do have is not working well and should be replaced.

Interlux recommends VC-17m for racing dinghies. Although my boat is in the water year round, that recommendation makes me think it does well with submersion and drying out.

VC-17m is somewhat ablative. It does wear off, but only in high wear areas like leading edges or (so I've heard) where it touches bunks on a trailer. It's a great paint for freshwater, but only for someone who can pull their boat out every year or two, as Interlux recommends a new coat every two years on freshwater and every year on saltwater. That being said, applying a new coat takes no time at all relative to other paints because VC-17m starts to dry before you finish your rolling stroke - you cannot roll back over your first stroke because the paint is already partially dried and you will give it a rough surface if you do. The drying is so fast, I pour mine from the can into a 20 oz. Coke bottle, cap it, shake it, and only pour enough for a few rolls into the pan at a time. And I can launch after 15 minutes of dry time. In fact, I spend more time taping than I do painting.

VC-17m flows really well. So it will show imperfections in your hull and may show any rough surface beneath it. If it does not appear smooth after testing in a small area, you may want to try sanding your current surface with a 320 grit sandpaper to see if it smooths up. If so, that might be the way to go before applying VC-17m.

Also make sure to clean off your sanding dust with an approved cleaner. Although someone with more experience on here may disagree, its not worth risking the finish of your undersides with a normal hardware store cleaner. If I remember correctly, Interlux 216 is right for cleaning off dust before VC-17m, but I can't remember for sure and you can look it up on Interlux's website in the datasheet section.

Edited by - sethp001 on 10/05/2014 22:07:06

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2014 : 06:53:37

I seem to recall that some if not most barrier coats instruct against sanding--it negates their impermeability. The Pettit barrier coat I once used remained somewhat soft, and even very sliglthly sticky to the touch--I presumed to enhance adhesion of paint without sanding. I recall the instructions saying to apply the first coat of paint fairly soon after applying the barrier coat.

BTW, I like Pettit's Hydrocoat SR, a water-based anti-slime ablative. It's more pleasant to work with--especially cleaning up--and has performed well for multiple seasons.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/06/2014 06:56:12

sdpinaz
Navigator

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USA
193 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2014 : 07:40:40

I have not used it, but Pettit VIVID is designed to be hauled out on a trailer for extended periods of time. It can also be used in salt and fresh. it is more expensive than VC17 but I think its re-coat schedule would make up for it, might actually be cheaper in the long run. It can be burnished and polished too, has anyone here used it?

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Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2014 : 17:50:21

Good reads.
Thanks everyone for the info and the time it took to write your articles and post links.
Now I have some studying to do.

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