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Lifting the top

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sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/06/2014 : 19:49:59

I was able to lift the top with my main halyard. Have the CD lift kit to install but after much thinking tried using what was there and it worked. Will take pictures tomorrow to help explain what worked. I now know why haven't used the feature for a long time, it's heavy.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2014 : 20:21:26

It seems to me the main halyard gives you just 1-1 advantage (meaning none) except that it lets you pull instead of push. The CD strut kit, from most reports, reduces the pushing effort by half or more. Also, it adds some degree of safety factor in the possible event of the top falling.

I had planned on buying and installing the kit, but due to life changes, sold the boat instead. The guy who bought her bought the kit, hadn't installed it yet, and hurt his back lifting the top. I think he sold the kit along with the boat to "Voyager" Bruce, who will maybe add his comments...

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2014 : 19:16:52

I have noticed that the top seems a little heavier this year as my seventieth looms. Probably time for the lift.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2014 : 09:21:16

I have the CD spring system to install and the instuctions call for the mast to be removed, unstepped and set aside. It seems the powerful springs will cause stresses in the hinge systems after a time. I don't like the physical lift which as reported could cause a problem. So this is what I'm sharing, a use of what is available on board and it works. No holes or fittings with a lines looped under and connected at each side of the hatch. A line is looped over the boom and attached to the lines under the hatch and then connected to the main halyard. The halyard is threaded through a swivel block attached to the mast step then up to the mast winch.
I find I can gently lift and set back down the poptop. All the way up and the halyard secure I'm able to secure the sliding clip to hold the top in place.
I'm now going to be able to use the poptop for our planned longer cruises. The sailing with the top up is not the best way as the vang is not usable so now it can be lowered. The hope is we will anchor or dock for a longer stays at favorite places.

Edited by - on

jaydon
Navigator

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USA
156 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2015 : 04:03:23

Good morning
I tried to lift mine yesterday for the first time. Boy is it heavy.
I'll try to rig a lift.
I do have a question on the mast 'lock' item. I got it from CD and was going to install it. It has to go in the mast track, but it should be installed where the sail feed is. The sail feed is ABOVE the boom. It looks like the boom needs to be removed so the lock can be below it. The boom is screwed to the mast. Is there anything I have to lookout for when removing these screws? Will I loose any 'nuts' in the mast?
Are the internal parts capable of falling to the base?
The mast is up and I cannot lower it right now.
Thanks
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2015 : 07:44:40

Jay,
Wow - I don't know about a screwed-in boom since my boom is connected via a gooseneck that rides freely up and down in the sail slug slot of the mast. There are several screwed-on parts on the mast like the mast gate and in those cases there are no backing nuts, only holes that are threaded or threaded inserts that are part of the mast. I won't say there wouldn't be any backing nuts (never say never) but I'd doubt it. If you do decide to loosen the boom bolts you should be able to feel any backing nuts getting loose....
On Dave "Stinkpotter's" thread, when Passage came to me the poptop pistons were installed by Bill, the interim owner. The poptop was very manageable to push up and lock with the mast clip (riding in the slot) and a little tricky to drop - you have to be prepared to lower it down, but its not overwhelming by any means, it's quite civilized.
That said, I use it on hot summer days on the hook or on the slip. And only occasionally.

It's a nice feature to have if you're on a slip and entertain a lot. If you mostly sail then not so much.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2015 : 08:56:39

Hi Jay... The sliding gooseneck was replaced by a fixed one (screwed onto the mast) maybe around 1987, I think--that corresponds to your hull#, and also to Bruce's '85 with the slider. The threaded holes for his gate plates were threaded by me, so I wouldn't make any assumptions from that. Hopefully somebody with a fixed gooseneck will respond on installing the hook. (I'm wondering why it isn't there, if there's no simple way to remove it.)

From what I see and read about the halyard rig, I'm concerned about lifting the heavy pop-top by the sliding hatch, which means lifting it by the hatch's flanges that fit into the teak rails on both sides. (Maybe I'm not seeing it correctly...) On my boat, those flanges were worn somewhat thin, and even it they weren't, I'm concerned that they're not designed to carry that kind of load. I'd hate to see one bend or break off with the top halfway up. As we all know, that top is a load!

As I've said before, I like the struts both for assisting with the lifting and for safety once it's up.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/19/2015 09:04:20

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2015 : 12:34:23

quote:
I'm concerned about lifting the heavy pop-top by the sliding hatch, which means lifting it by the hatch's flanges

I totally agree. I doubt even when new and not worn the flanges were made to hold that much weight. Only to guide the hatch.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

wanderer13
1st Mate

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USA
76 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2015 : 15:12:52

Is there a wood core on the pop top? I was wondering why yours are so heavy, and wondered if the core (if there is one) had become soaked? Mine really isn't that bad.

jaydon
Navigator

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USA
156 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2015 : 15:43:53

I was not planning to lift by the flanges. I was thinking of just resting it on 'locks' and wrapping a line around it, between the struts.
You know, when the PO had the mast off last, it may dropped out of the slot and not put back. Most sailboats, not trailered, around here are stored over the winter with the mast up. So it could be a few years since the mast was down. And, maybe the PO just lost it.
If I can't remove the boom, maybe i'll try to jury-rig something from the hatch locks up and around the mast. I'd like to use the pop-top, but am not removing the mast this year. That will be next years project. Replace wiring, sheaves, halyards, etc.
Thanks all
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2015 : 16:55:55

I'm 61 and I can lift the top manually without the gas assisted struts. It's not that big of a deal.

I attach a line around the front lift arms and then in front of the mast. Pull it tight as a backup for the hook you are referring to but I've never had the top move at all.

You could also fashion some 2 X 2 braces that fit between the front and back lift arms and make it impossible for the top to come down.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - GaryB on 04/21/2015 19:27:26

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2015 : 04:09:50

<< attach a line around the front lift arms and then in front of the mast. >>

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

jaydon
Navigator

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USA
156 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2015 : 04:14:31

Exactly what I planned on. Not sure why I was having a problem lifting thew top the other day. I was below lifting straight up and at 6'3", could not get the leverage. Maybe a little WD4x and more of a push from aft?
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2015 : 07:30:19

quote:
Originally posted by wanderer13

Is there a wood core on the pop top? I was wondering why yours are so heavy, and wondered if the core (if there is one) had become soaked? Mine really isn't that bad.

You must be young and strong. I wasn't. Or maybe yours already has the gas struts installed...??

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2015 : 09:03:55

Im still thinking about struts. It has gotten much heavier in my 70's. Must have absorbed a lot of water.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2015 : 10:15:59

<< Im still thinking about struts. >>

It's on my list also...

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Edited by - redeye on 04/21/2015 12:15:36

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2015 : 13:58:23

First time I went to lift the top I stopped pushing and poked my head out to see if someone was standing on it.... That immediately got filed in the "Way to hard to do" file.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 04/21/2015 14:01:12

jaydon
Navigator

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USA
156 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2015 : 16:49:09

I agree with everyone (but one). That thing is heavy. What's with the 'struts' modification? Does it replace one of the existing ones? For all the effort it takes each time, the $139 is looking better. LOL
Heading up to the boat to finish the compound & polich tomorrow. Hope the weather hold.
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2015 : 19:10:53

Each of the gas struts are mounted between the existing passive struts between the cabintop and the poptop. I did not install them but it looks like the PO used a paper template to mount the mounting brackets with the correct spacing. Apparently the trick is that the pistons are fully extended and when you follow the mounting instructions, the distance between the mounts requires either:
(1) that the pistons be partially compressed - good luck on that with over 100 pounds force to compress them or
(2) over-extend the poptop beyond where it would naturally come to rest swinging up against the mast.
There are several non-optimal approaches to installing the pistons without dropping the mast, and folks have reported varying results in the past:
1. Lean the mast forward by 20-30�. This can be done by removing the backstay and both aft lower shrouds, but you'd better have a lot of help holding the mast as you tip it forward. Very unstable and unsafe.
2. Compress the pistons - some people have figured out how to use line or a jig to compress the pistons, but I'd be concerned that with the great forces in play, something would go awry and with all the force, people could get hurt
3. Mount the mounting brackets further apart than specified by the mounting instructions. Problem here is you get NO resistance at the start of the travel, so the poptop would likely flop down and potentially cause injury.

My advice - a job worth doing is a job done right, or as they say in NYC, fuggeddaboutit!

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2015 : 06:48:11

I thought someone reported that they simply disconnected caty corner struts and jacked up the top to get enough clearance? Up with one corner and down with another. Then vica versa for the other side.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

rdthoms
Deckhand

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USA
15 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2015 : 06:39:51

I just bought a C25 and it came with the CD assist kit still in the box. I looked at the instructions and was surprised that it called for unstepping the mast. I wonder how much more travel is needed to install the struts and why not just support the top and remove a couple of the the static struts and raise the top to install the gas struts then push it back down to reattach the static struts. Would it be too hard to push down against the gas struts? I guess I'll have to take a closer look and do some geometry. However, I do have some to-do's requiring taking the mast down to fix windex, and lights so maybe I just add this to the list.

Richard
Huntsville, AL
1984 Catalina 25 SR/FK #4309

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2015 : 07:04:35

I think you have to push it past the mast so that the gas struts can be fully extended. If you can compress them then you can do it with mast up. I did with mast down and it worked fine.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2015 : 10:52:17

I had no problem compressing the struts by hand so I could install mine with the mast up. They click in place so you do not need to hold the strut compressed long and you don't compress it all the way. Like most things, it is not a big deal unless you talk yourself into it being a big deal.

Frank Hopper

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2015 : 04:41:08

<< it is not a big deal unless you talk yourself into it being a big deal. >>

Ain't nothin to it but to do it?

Thanks Frank!

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

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