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Towing C25 with 1996 Silverado

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capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/04/2014 : 19:55:24

I know the subject of towing has been oft discussed here, but I'm new to the forum, new to Catalina 25s, and relatively new to 1/2ton trucks, having come over from Britain twelve years ago (well, it takes some time to get to grips with you guys and your automobile idiosyncrasies

).

Here's the facts: sailed a lot in the UK, cut my teeth on racing dinghies, often taking them where they were never intended to go (mainly the Irish Sea), and some coastal cruising in small sloops. I haven't sailed for many years (now an old codger of 68) but need to get back into it and live only fifteen miles from Lake Superior (south of Marquette).

I've just bought a Catalina 25, fin keel, tall rig, No; 739 built 1978, from Hoopers Yachts in Minnesota. It has an EZ Loader trailer, also 1978 vintage. My problem is how to get it the 400 miles from Hoopers to home.

I have a 1996 1/2 ton Chevy Silverado in very good condition: original 5.7L engine (120,000 miles); stock tranny cooler; factory HD chassis mods from new; tow rig rated to 6000lbs according to the door sticker.

The boat displacement is 4550lbs (plus a bit for outboard, etc), but having received the Minnesota title for the trailer it states the 'Gross Wt/Base' of said trailer is 4500 (I assume that's lbs).

If that's an accurate weight for the empty trailer it seems darned heavy. I never envisaged it weighing more than about 1500lbs. It is steel construction and double axle, but could it really weigh so much? It's just an EZ Loader. I've tried to find out about it, but the internet is lacking in info for aging trailers and EZ Loader don't reply to my emails.

If this weight is accurate, I'm looking at a gross weight of near 10,000lbs, which seems ridiculous. Hoopers say if my truck is rated at 6000lbs, it'll be fine, but it's causing me to have doubts.

The trailer is being serviced at Hoopers and they're replacing the coupling and surge brake control. My truck is booked in with our local shop for a check over prior to the trip. I'm anticipating collecting the boat on the 16th of this month.

Am I worrying unduly? I've towed some fairly hefty trailers in the UK, but was familiar with my vehicle's capabilities.

I'm really looking forward to getting my boat, so would like to get it home safely. Has anyone been in a similar situation? What are the views of you experts?

As you guys say: "Break out the popcorn!"

Edited by - on

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2014 : 04:46:35

I have a friends that tow their boats with older Chevy 1/2 ton pick-ups. I will bet that your trailer weighs in the neighbor hood of 1100 pounds empty if that much. If it has double axels with 15 inch wheels, five leaf springs (some have four), with five lug nuts, the axels are probably 3500 pounds each. There should be brakes on the rear axel, maybe both. Be sure to check the brakes and check and repack the bearings before traveling with it. Sounds like you are already doing this. The people doing the service work should know what you have. Trailer tires should not be any older than 7 years max unless you see any cracking.

You could get a good look at the details of yours and go to a trailer dealer and compare to new ones. Perhaps that will give you a better idea of what you have. I suspect you will be OK, just take it easy.

Welcome to the group.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2014 : 06:18:39

I towed my C25 with a 1/2 ton Chev pu with a 350 engine, and found it adequate. If you're on a limited access highway, towing it is fairly easy. On other roadways, however, you need to keep your speed within speed limits, and watch ahead for traffic signal lights, and avoid having to stop suddenly. Keep plenty of distance between you and the car ahead. As you can imagine, you can't stop the rig on a dime. If the roadway is wet, or if there is loose gravel on the pavement, the wheels can lock up and slide in a hard braking. The good news is that, with my truck and trailer, at least, the trailer tracked straight without any apparent tendency to whiplash or jacknife, even when braking hard. It always seemed very stable behind my truck.

If that sounds scary, it is, but we all have done it safely many times. You just need to be aware of the need to keep your speed down when not on a limited access highway, and understand that you are towing alot of weight behind you. Your self confidence will increase with a little towing experience.

Edited by - on

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2014 : 06:59:06

Thanks for the input. The trailer weight is my only concern. Here are two pics. They don't show it clearly as the boat's sat on top, but as you guys know trailers better than I do you may be able to judge its weight better.

It looks a bit the worse for wear but, as before stated, the yard is servicing it and the tires look good.

Thanks for the welcome. I think you'll be seeing a lot more of me in the future

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2014 : 07:28:30

Hi John, until recently, we towed our C25 with a 1991 Silverado 1/2t also with a 5.7 liter and auxiliary transmission cooler. While 6000+ lbs. is pushing the limits of the truck - it did just fine. The majority of C25s at our marina are towed with 1/2t pick-ups.

You may already know the 3 basics of towing: No jack rabbit starts, no accelerating up hills and leave the transmission in "D". I avoid towing when the roads are wet - but I'm just paranoid.

Re brakes - a phrase often used here is "it's not the getting going but the stopping that's critical." You may want to check DOT laws in your state regarding trailer brakes. In the great state of PA, any tandem axle trailer > 3,000 lbs gross requires brakes on both axles.

What are the condition and age of the trailer tires? Most trailer tires are replaced due to dry rot rather than tread wear. What about a trailer spare and jack? Wheel chocks? If the trailer is currently being serviced - recheck the lug nuts yourself. You may even want to drive a few miles, pull over and place your hand on the rims to check for overheating - a sure sign of a brake shoe hanging up.

I think hewebb below is close to the actual trailer weight. We did an informal survey at our marina and discovered >75% of the tow vehicles had <u>under</u>rated hitches. We purchase hitches that have a non weight-distributing rating > the trailer + boat.

Fetching a new boat is part of the experience boat ownership. Make it a well planned, safe and enjoyable one.

Good luck!

Edited by - OJ on 09/05/2014 07:45:06

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2014 : 19:26:28

My Trail-rite fin keel trailer, supplied as an original factory trailer for a C25 weighed 1,400 lbs empty. That would put your empty boat and trailer combo at 5,950 lbs. add equipment in the boat and you are probably closer to 6,500-7,000 lbs, excluding the outboard motor, which hopefully is in the back or the truck, not on the boat's transom.

Edited by - on

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2014 : 21:02:29

I'd like to thank all you guys for taking the trouble to respond. Your contributions have been really useful. I've decided to bite the bullet and use my truck to bring my the lady home. hewebb, I'm sure you're right about the trailer weight. I don't know where Minnesota DVS get 4500 from; OJ, I am already aware of the 3 basics of towing, but it never does any harm to be reminded. The yard is supplying me with a spare tire and they say those on the trailer are good. Also, the brakes and bearings have been serviced and are now (hopefully) working properly (brakes on both axles). I've bought wheel chocks and have spare vehicle jacks in case of a wheel change. dmpilc, thanks for your input. I will definitely have the 80+lbs Evinrude 15 in the truck, not bouncing around on the boat transom.
Incidentally, not sure why I keep getting listed as a 'Guest'. I joined the Association (and paid my dues) yesterday.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2014 : 03:42:11

One of these will help speed up the tire changing process if you have to do it on the side of the road.

You may have to use a breaker bar or lug wrench to loosen them slightly but this will make it a NASCAR pit stop after that.

http://s7d9.scene7.com/is/image/murdochs/Dewalt-9866073-DCF889B-main?$product-zoom$

Just be sure to use the lug wrench to do the final tightening after changing the tire and running the lug nuts back on with this.

Edited by - GaryB on 09/06/2014 03:45:21

Admin
Forum Admin

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460 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2014 : 04:28:17

John, your account has been updated, your posts now sport a nice Burgee

Take pics of the Journey!

Paul

Edited by - on

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2014 : 15:25:37

Hey, that's a cool tool, GaryB. I'll have to save my pocket money.

Thanks for the nice Burgee, Paul. Now all I have to do is work my way up from 'deckhand'!

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2014 : 15:52:01

quote:
Originally posted by capelyddol

...Now all I have to do is work my way up from 'deckhand'!

That's easy when you're retired like me! (Some are probably saying, "Get a life, Dave!")

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/06/2014 15:53:14

AtEase
Deckhand

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23 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2014 : 16:59:26

Forget the sticker "tow capacity" sticker. The actual tow capacity is the GCWR of your truck, minus the actual weight of your truck when ready to tow (fully loaded, tongue weight, people, coolers, etc).

Edited by - on

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2014 : 20:56:03

Okay, the good news is we made it to Minnesota, collected the boat and towed it home without any problems whatsoever. I would certainly not have any further qualms about towing a 25 with a 1500 Chevvy, though in fairness to my '96 Silverado it does have the 5.7L engine, towing pack, and HD chassis fittings. I also had the tranny fluid and filter changed before leaving home, and the brakes serviced.

And so to the boat: there are a million questions I need to ask you guys, but I'll start with just a couple:

1) Anyone know where I can obtain replacements for the 'coaming pockets' or 'winch handle holders' on either side of the cockpit. Mine are made of wood and have rotted near away. CD doesn't seem to do them and Google is no help.

2) The fin keel is held by six (I think) bolts and one of the middle ones is slanted inwards in the bilge. The rest are upright. No sign of any damage to the keel and externally the hull meets the keel smoothly and with no indication of damage or repair on either side of the boat. Should I be concerned?

Oh, and one other: The yard forgot to put the sails on the boat when we collected it and had to freight them to me. They're not in bad condition but I expected to see the familiar Catalina 25 logo on the mainsail together with the hull number. Instead, it has the red letters 'LW' and either a '1' or an 'I' underneath. The yard maintains they're the right sails for the boat (some by Murphy & Nye, others by Bowers) but I'm curious to know what these letters mean. Anyone?

I'll be submitting some images once I work out how to upload to the gallery.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2014 : 21:38:51

OJ I have one other rule, "Turn off Overdrive".

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2014 : 21:40:05

[url="http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/240_43/coaming-compartment-plastic-trim-rings-pair.cfm"]Coaming compartment trim rings.[/url]

Edited by - on

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2014 : 11:42:43

Dave
I'd already seen these, but as you can tell from these pics, mine are totally different

One even has the price tag still on it! $74.95, but no indication where it came from.

And here's some images of the sail letters:

This is the mainsail, but they're on one of the Genoas as well, low down near the tack.

Anyone recognize them? They're stuck on, so is there anything that'll get them off as I want the Catalina 25 logo and correct boat numbers up there.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2014 : 12:18:11

Your wood coaming pockets appear from the photos to be in fairly decent condition. Can't you just sand and varnish the trim that will be outside the cockpit seat back?
There are plastic pocket inserts available, but finding the right size could be a problem.

Edited by - on

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2014 : 13:13:47

dmplc
The frames are fine. Unfortunately the wood that forms the box - particularly the bottom part - is almost totally rotted away. Plastic inserts sound a possibility. Where do you obtain them?

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2014 : 15:29:06

I have seen C25's without coaming boxes so I always thought that they were add ons when the boat was being built and not standard or became standard in the later years. Your boxes were added by a PO somewhere in your boats life and and are definitely not the ones from Catalina. What you have to do now if they aren't salvageable is to measure the opening and your boxes then do a Google search for Coaming Box. There are plenty of them in various shapes and sizes. you just have to find one that fits or are slightly larger than your opening. You can always trim the opening a little. Don't forget to measure the depth. You wouldn't want the new box to fit the WxH but bottom out against the back/hull. As to the lettering on the sails they can be removed if they aren't sewn on. They are put on in a peel an stick fashion so they can be removed with a little heat from a hair drier. Do this carefully. You don't want to burn the sail. The residual glue can be removed with Acetone or you can try Goo Gone.. Warning: You may still have a "Ghost" image of the numbers when you are done. If you aren't comfortable doing this have a sail shop remove them. Shouldn't cost much for that I would guess. LW 1 Maybe this was a club boat at one time? LW for the name of the club, Boat #1

Edited by - islander on 09/27/2014 16:32:09

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2014 : 20:33:54

islander
Thanks for a great response. Of course, you're right. I wondered how a well-designed boat like the Catalina could have these incongruous wooden boxes stuck in the coaming. Since you point it out, it's obvious they must be an add-on by a PO. I'll take your advice and try to locate something better to replace them.

I'll also be borrowing the admiral's hair dryer - carefully (and possibly without her knowledge!) to remove the offending sail letters.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2014 : 08:44:18

That sail looks like it came from some other boat, but I can't find any LW sail logos on the web. A P.O. may have adapted it... The TR luff length should be 27'8"--what's yours? Some people have found sails from different boats (like the Capri 25 and J-24) with shorter luffs to raise the TR boom. (The SR boom rides 2' higher.)

Also, I see it's a bolt-rope luff. I suspect most C-25 mains have slugs on the luff--more convenient for a cruising boat where you want to keep the lowered sail on the boom.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/28/2014 08:44:57

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2014 : 14:06:03

quote:
Originally posted by pastmember

OJ I have one other rule, "Turn off Overdrive".

Oh, you must have the fancy pushbutton model.

The Cheyenne doesn't even have a switch for the dome light on the passenger side door!

Edited by - OJ on 09/28/2014 14:08:44

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2014 : 14:59:34

Dave
That was my immediate reaction when I first unfolded the sail - it's not from a Catalina! However, like you I could find no reference to any class of boat that would carry the letters LW. Measured loose (not on the mast) the luff length is 26'5", though it might well stretch to a bit more under sailing conditions. Even so, I can't imagine it would make the full 27'8".

There is a mainsail cover for the boat in the same material and color as the hatch and tiller covers, but it's the 'non-stacking' kind only widening slightly at the mast end (24" mast end, when folded, tapering to 15"), which I'm guessing would be the type utilized for a mainsail with a bolt-rope luff?

It's all a bit of a mystery. I need to get the mast stepped and try out the fit of these sails properly, but before I can do that I have to devise a one-man mast-raising system. Fortunately, there seems a lot of info on that subject within these forums.

Edited by - on

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2014 : 15:03:49

Frank & OJ
My Silverado is way too old to have fancy push-button overdrive. It's just the next gear up on the steering column. Needless to say, I stayed well out of it while towing the boat.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2014 : 16:49:44

quote:
I see it's a bolt-rope luff

Whoa..Good eye Dave. Didn't see that one...To be honest I hope that is not the right sail just for that reason

Edited by - on

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2014 : 20:27:13

islander
Explain yourself, my good man! Virtually every boat I sailed in my formative years had a rope luff mainsail running up a groove in a wooden mast. Are you guys getting a little lazy, always leaving your sail on the boom? Or, is there another more scientific reason for using slugs? ;-)

Where the heck's the smilies on this forum?!!

Edited by - capelyddol on 09/28/2014 20:30:52

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