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110V breaker switch

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hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/18/2014 : 02:44:15

I have to replace the battery switch and in the process I have been inspecting the other wiring in the panel area. I did clean up one item that looked questionable (Something a previous PO installed). The rest of it looks to be in good shape, however, I cannot find a breaker for the 110V system. There is a switch marked "AC Polarity", but it does not act like a breaker but does turn the 110V power off.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2014 : 05:19:02

The AC polarity switch is the breaker for the 110 AC shore power. It is a 30 amp breaker. It is the switch on the right in my photo.

Edited by - on

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2014 : 06:13:36

isn't the polarity light to warn you of reverse polarity?

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2014 : 08:32:56

Yes but the switch does not reverse it for you. It looks like it does , just poor labeling. Be sure to change your outlets to ground faults too.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3367 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2014 : 10:04:46

Agree

The light alerts you if polarity is reversed. But the switch is the 110V breaker.

Edited by - on

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 07/19/2014 : 05:13:43

Thanks Guys

Howard

Edited by - on

jaydon
Navigator

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USA
156 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2016 : 14:49:01

Finally found this thread which mentions reverse polarity light. I plugged in the shore power for the first time. New cable and the clubs 110.
When I turn the switch 'on', the reverse polarity lights up.
While I had it on I checked all four outlets with one of those three prong plug-in testers. According to the tester all was good. There are indicators for ground, neutral & hot reverse. None lit up.
I checked the manual and all it said was to disconnect immediately.
Any help out there?
Thanks
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2016 : 16:50:23

Don't hold me to this but if your outlets test out ok then they are wired correctly and the problem is upstream from them. Personally I would suspect the clubs wiring. In my world I would try a different source of power like a generator. If the polarity light stays off then it's the clubs wiring. If it comes on again then the problem is in the boat. Might be that the shore power inlet wires are reversed (white and black) Are you using a regular 110 extension cord or a 30 amp marine cord? If it's a 110 extension cord put your tester in the end and see how the clubs wiring is. this is pure speculation not knowing the history of your boats wiring. I don't know if it was put in by Catalina or some PO or if it was worked on sometime in its life but as I said I would suspect the clubs wiring first.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 06/07/2016 17:32:05

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2016 : 20:38:31

Curmudgeon on... I have some doubts about Scott's analysis, but I can't claim to be qualified to offer the reasons. We're talking about stuff here that can burn up the boat or kill people. I strenuously recommend either involving a licensed marine electrician or surveyor. A quick look should do it--unless there's a real issue, in which case you should be happy to cover a little more of his time.

Curmudgeon out.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2016 : 04:56:12

Dave might also be right. What I'm suggesting is before hiring an electrician I would first isolate the problem. Is it the boat or the clubs shore power. I would still test the outlet that you are getting power from first. Big waste of money just to have him tell you that there is nothing wrong with the boat and the problem is in the wiring at the club outlet.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2016 : 04:59:32

This may not make sense but of the two different ground wires are attached to the opposite terminal in the shore power receptacle, or elsewhere in the system, that may happen even though the system works. This happened to me with an RV system some time ago.

1988 WK/SR w/inboard diesel Joe Pool Lake
Hobie 18 Lake Worth

Life is not a dress rehearsal. You will not get another chance.

Edited by - hewebb on 06/08/2016 05:00:06

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2016 : 05:58:51

quote:
Originally posted by hewebb

This may not make sense but of the two different ground wires are attached to the opposite terminal in the shore power receptacle, or elsewhere in the system...

Indeed, I'm afraid it doesn't make sense. AC ground is not like DC so-called "ground". Get somebody to check it out. It needs to be safe.

BRUCE ROSS??? ARE YOU OUT THERE?

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/08/2016 06:01:28

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2016 : 07:29:18

The problem is simply that somewhere somebody switched the black and white wires. The ground or neutral (white) is now the hot/power and the black (hot/power) is now the neutral/ground. The risk is that you can shock yourself Take for instance a light bulb socket, The power is normally at the center connector and the neutral is the outer housing. There is no risk if you touch the outer housing. When the wires are reversed the power flows the opposite way making the outer housing the hot side. The light will still work because it doesn't care what direction the power is flowing but if you touched the outer housing to turn the light on or off your body is connected to the ground then your body just completed the circuit resulting in a shock. The switching of the wires can happen at marinas when an inexperienced dock hand replaces a shore power receptical and simply connects the two wires wrong.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

SKS
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2016 : 08:33:01

If the wiring were wrong at the outlets, the tester would have indicated it. So the power is correct at the outlet, which means the problem lies upstream of the outlets.
Is there a way to test the polarity of the club power ? Is there a standard 110 outlet on the kiosk at the dock ?
One possibility, though unlikely, is that the shore power is wrong, and the outlets are also wired backwards. In this case two wrongs make a right, but this is unlikely.
If the shore power is correct, and the outlets are correct, then the light is probably wired backwards.
In my estimation, this is the most likely scenario.
Another possibility, maybe the tester is broken. I know you said none of the lights came on, but isn't there a light to confirm the circuit is good ?? Shouldn't that light have come on ?

As always, my free advice given electronically through text messaging, isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

"Lady E" 1986 Catalina 25: Fin Keel, Standard Rig, Inboard M12 Diesel, Sail No. 5339
Sailing out of Norwalk Cove Marina, Connecticut

Edited by - SKS on 06/08/2016 08:38:02

jaydon
Navigator

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USA
156 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2016 : 10:52:20

Thanks for all the input. I think my first step will be to try the other 'kiosk' outlet.
I'll also talk to the RC for docks and see if there is anyone at the club who is qualified to check this out.
I just didn't know why the RP light would be on at the panel, but the tested would say all is well.
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2016 : 12:52:26

It could also depend on what his switch/rp lights are showing. Without a picture of his installation, we're just guessing.

Here's an example of where if lights are ON it's OK, it's when the OTHER light is on that's it's a problem.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2620.msg13781.html#msg13781

Stu
1986 C34 #224 "Aquavite"
Cowichan Bay, BC Maple Bay Marina
(formerly San Francisco)
(formerly C25 #2459 "Capricorn Two")

jaydon
Navigator

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USA
156 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2016 : 13:36:26

Ok, seems to be a few questions about my system.
My dock is at a YC. The shore power terminals are in good shape (visually).
The marine cord is brand new.
The Catalina 25 shore power set-up is stock and probably as old as the boat. A 1987.
I did not leave the power on for more than a few minutes, time to check each plug with the 'circuit tester'.
The tester is a simple plug-in one.
http://www.sweetwater.com/images/items/750/ReceptTest-large.jpg
As in this one, the bottom 2 lights came on.
So, it seems the recepticles are ok.
I'll play with 12v, but not sure if I want to f%#k with 110v.
I'm in RI, any good marine electricians in that area?
Thanks
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2016 : 14:46:06

My boat is an 87 also. The stock Catalina shore power inlet is on the angled piece in front of port winch above the deck where the deck water is channels overboard. The backside of it is in the dumpster. Being in salt water I get a lot of corrosion on all of my electrical connections on the panel and bus bar. I just replaced my 30 amp shore power switch for the second time in 6yrs do to corrosion. I wonder if corrosion on connections could cause the RP light to come on.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2016 : 07:43:28

Wow! My ears were ringing a few days ago...

The problem is there are too many variables so the answer is to do things systematically. You can get or make a pigtail power cord that plugs in to the shore power receptacle with a locking connector on one end and a standard 15A 110 VAC home-style grounded outlet on the other. If you plug that into shore power and plug in a polarity indicator into the 3 prong outlet, this will tell you if the shore power is wired correctly.

Next test the continuity of the shore power plug without any electrical power connected. Here are the steps:

� Take your shore power cable - make sure it's unplugged - and with the Digital Multi Meter, select the 10 Ohms or continuity setting.
� Then probe the "hot" leg of the boat's outlet with one lead and the "hot" lead of the shore power cable (NOT THE OUTLET!!!) If you have continuity, you should get a beep or zero Ohms. If not, then the wires are switched.
� Next, do the same with the neutral leg of the boat's outlet and the neutral of the cable. It should beep.
� Lastly test the corresponding ground legs.
If these all check out OK, then the boat is good - so far.
If not, call the electrician.

What could have happened is when somebody rewired the boat, they could have reversed the wires going to the boat's AC Polarity Switch. In this case, everything else could be 100% fine but the breaker is wired wrong.

Another possibility is that the boat is wired incorrectly as well as the shore power. In that case, two reversals of hot and neutral do indeed make a right. But that's why the AC Polarity Switch is complaining.

There is a wiring diagram in the Catalina owners' manual that shows the exact connections and wire color - you can give to the electrician. They can likely suss it out quickly.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 06/10/2016 08:12:49

Phredde
Navigator

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125 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2016 : 16:06:39

Speaking of pigtails, my marina has weird outlets. Three round holes in a triangle pattern. So when I first moved in 20 years ago, I was told to order a pigtail converter to get a standard marine cord to work. I did and had the polarity light issue. Ended up opening up the pigtail and switching the hot and neutral. No light, seems to work fine. But I really don't use shore power very often. Doesn't sound like that's your problem. But it seemed to work for me. let me know if anyone sees an issue...

Phredde
Catalina 25
San Francisco

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