Association Forum - 78 catalina windows

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

78 catalina windows

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

gbward
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2014 : 14:00:51

As of right now, I am half way through redoing the windows on my newly purchased 1978 C25 swing keel.

I decided to use butyl tape, and so far it has been easy to work with. I use a 1" wide by 1/8" thick tape. When I apply the tape to the window frame flange, the tape overhangs by 1/4". I then go back and fold that 1/4" over on it self - creating a 2 x 1/8" = 1/4" thick seal. This appears to work very well and take up and unflatness in the cabin top.

As for the CD kit, I can give you two pieces of advice:

1) use the Dow 795 silicone sealant sparingly! In my first attempt I used a bead wide enough to span the channels - PVC strip and Aluminum frame. (And no, I did not fill the channels to the top.) Just enough to span the bottoms. When I tried assembling the glass to the frame, sealant squeezed out everywhere. It was a huge MESS. I spent an hour and a half cleaning the PVC gasket, glass, and frames to the point were I could start over.

2)Be very careful about pinching the gasket.

After the huge mess I had with the first window I decided to skip the sealant and take my chances with frame to glass leaks for the first 3 windows. (According to CD only 1 in 5 windows direct from the factory leaked without silicone).

Last night I re-assembled the 4th window and this time I decided to try the silicone again. I ran a thin bead - approximately 3mm diameter along the PVC channel and the aluminum frame. (Compared to a full 8 to 10 mm for the first window). This window went together much better. There was very little mess - and I was quick to clean up any silicone with Mineral Spirits as soon as it squeezed out.

I will probably use silicone for the remaining two widows (the smaller, forward windows). So I will have three windows WITH silicone and three windows WITHOUT.

Should be a good experiment. And since I used buytl tape, It won't we too tough to remove a leaky window if I need to.

Good luck with it!

-Geoff

Edited by - on

stang9150
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
138 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2014 : 15:39:15

Thanks for the advice! I have this one window broken down and the 2 pieces of the frame separated,now just a matter of getting all the silicone off.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2014 : 16:04:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by stang9150
 . . . The previous owner did not use any gaskets just a whole bunch of silicone . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Stang, I know your pain. The DPO of a previous 1981 C25 put GLOBS of silicone on the inside of the inner frame - and they were still leaking. I spent countless hours scraping off the silicone!

Edited by - OJ on 04/07/2014 16:05:12

stang9150
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
138 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2014 : 22:13:50

Yup about 4 hours in so far with a razor blade. Got the glass cleaned and working on the frame channels now

Edited by - on

stang9150
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
138 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2014 : 21:51:02

One window down 5 to go! I was able to use the window frame as template and cut out 2 pieces of 1/8 inch plywood to fill the gap. Put one piece up top and then another down in the channel. Glued and clamped over night, feels much better.

Edited by - on

stang9150
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
138 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2014 : 17:34:30

Heavy rain today and it leaks ugh. The leak is from two of the screw holes that hold the inner frame not sure how water is getting there,

Edited by - on

indyshelley
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2014 : 17:35:29

After getting much help from this forum, I finally get to contribute. I hope this is helpful...

I just finished the windows today using the Catalina Direct window reseal kit. I started early yesterday morning and it took two of us about 20 hours with only meal breaks. We took our time and tried to do everything right.
Two of my windows had been previously done by the PO. They were the hardest to remove from the boat. The other four were easy to get out. It took less than two hours to remove all 6 windows. The most time consuming part of the entire project was cleaning the old adhesive off the frames. I'm not sure what they used but it was very gummy, sticky and very difficult to remove. I tried many solvents but none would cut through it. The best solution for me was 2 wood chisels, one 1/4" wide and one 3/8" wide. To clean the face of the frames(both inside and outside) we used scotchbrite pads wetted with MEK. They cleaned up nicely. Before using the adhesive we did as suggested and masked both sides of the glass minus about a 1/2" from the edges, masked the front of the frames, and masked the boat again 1/2' from the edges. On day one we removed the frames, disassembled the frames, cleaned and reassembled as directed in the instructions. On day two we reinstalled back into the boat.

The kit included one tube of Dow Corning 795 gray (for the glass to gasket and gasket to frame seal) and one tube of 3M 4000 white for sealing the frame to the boat. I agree with previous posters that you really need two tubes of each to do this job correctly. I also think that butyl tape would work great in place of the 3M 4000 for mounting to the boat. The sealant didn't take up enough thickness and the frame didn't seam to tighten down enough.

The whole thing went well and we got better as we went along. Here are some tips: 1. When wrapping the u shaped gasket around the glass don't stretch it. Cut it so the ends just touch. It will fit into the corners better this way. 2. Tape the ends of the gasket to hold in place. The original Catalina gaskets were done this way. 3. Leave the masking on the frames until installed in the boat. 4. Put the window assembly in the boat opening, find the best position and trace around the frame onto the boat with pencil. Mask about 1/8" outside of this line. 5. Put the sealant on the frame not the boat. 6. To hold the assembly in place temporally, tape the window to the boat. 7. Have someone outside the boat hold the window while the inside frames are being screwed on.

Anyhow, that's about it. PM me if you have any questions....I think they turned out great...I guess we'll see how great the next time it rains.

Edited by - indyshelley on 04/19/2014 17:46:45

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

Members Avatar

Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2014 : 01:10:30

Now you have again the original looking and non-leaking windows. Perfect work.

Edited by - on

stang9150
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
138 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2014 : 10:19:37

I checked everything on my window I just redid and looked for any gaps. I sprayed the window with a garden hose for 5 minutes straight and had no leaks. We got some rain yesterday and the window is leaking from the top left corner and the bottom. The only thing I can think of is since I put all new wood in the window frame,water coming for somewhere else is coming in now. where as before it was probably going straight to the bilge. I have a tarp over the window now so it is raining again I will go check out my theory tonight.

Edited by - on

worane
1st Mate

Members Avatar

Australia
36 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2014 : 21:08:37

Neat and tidy with the silicone the previous owner , was not!

Edited by - on

Jan Briede
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2014 : 04:48:55

I'm in the process of doing my windows as well. I am using the Catalina Direct kit to a point. After pulling the windows I use the west marine epoxy kit that fits into a caulk gun and inject the sides. I use small clamps to pull the two outer shells together to get an even gap. I differ from Catalina Direct by setting the windows into butyl tape (this was recommended by some on this site a year or two ago). I just finished my first window and it stayed dry until now. Working on my second one this week.

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

Members Avatar

Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2014 : 05:07:24

Caulk gun is a good tool, but last time when I did some gap filling, I just used the old plastic bag and cut one corner. Then filled the bag with the epoxy putty and squeezed it into the gap like the confectioner. Yummy cake

Edited by - on

stang9150
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
138 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2014 : 08:47:54

I did manage to find the problem with that window,It was not the window at all but a piece of wood trim up above.The water was running down between the hull and just happened to be coming out the window.

Edited by - on

kiko
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
69 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2014 : 20:40:24

Hey Everyone,

doing the same project also, a week has passed and I'm still cleaning the old sealant off.

IndyShelly, how did you shine up those aluminium frames? They look gorgeous!

Another question for the forum, when appling the adhesive to the inside of frame before placing onto boat, did you use a spreader to even out the adhesive over the full width of the frame or can you be specific if you were successful on how you applied it?

thanks!

Edited by - on

kiko
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
69 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2014 : 20:53:41

And another question, only took out the four main windows, does the C/D kit have enough material to do all six?

Edited by - on

kiko
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
69 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2014 : 21:16:48

And a question again, sorry I did not post all questions into one post.

When you cut the rubber gaskets, did you make your cut at the top of the window or the bottom?

Does it matter?

Edited by - on

stang9150
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
138 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2014 : 08:48:00

If your talking about the gasket that wraps around the glass i would do it at the top,I did my last one at the bottom but will move forward doing the rest up top maybe a top corner.

Edited by - on

indyshelley
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2014 : 13:27:00

Kiko, to put a shine on the window frames we used an aggressive Scotch Brite pad wet with MEK. It was not hard....especially compared to cleaning all that adhesive out of the frames!
We ended up having one window that still leaked. I should have waited to have two tubes of each caulking/sealant before doing this job. Anyhow we got another tube of each and redid that one leaky window this week. It was difficult to remove the window. The three week old 3M 4000 was very stubborn. Got it out without breaking it though. This time I put about a 4mm bead of caulk on the frame (near the edge) AND a semi flat bead of caulk on the boat. This seemed to work much better and some caulk squeezed out all the way around. Dragging a the rounded end of a Popsicle stick (as suggested) to clean the excess caulk off works well. It puts a nice fillet in the caulk.
We also used much more caulk between the glass and the gasket and between the gasket and the frame. As long as you have everything masked properly the mess is easily controlled. We pulled the masking off soon after we finished and it looked as good as the others. Take your time masking.
We had enough gasket material left from the original install to do this window (it was the middle large one)....so yes, the kit had enough gasket material to do all 6 windows plus one more. The kit does NOT have enough caulk/sealant though ....buy an additional tube of each.

Edited by - indyshelley on 05/21/2014 16:18:41

kiko
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
69 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2014 : 16:04:34

Hey IndyShelley,

thanks for the help, answers and insight, much appreciated :)

Edited by - on

kiko
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
69 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2014 : 23:40:41

Hey IndyShelley or anyone,

removed the last two windows since I have learned that C/D kit can service all six.

However, the split window over the porta potty area is completely caulked. So how does the C/D kit fit on that window system?

IndyShelley, can you upload videos of install to youtube?

Thanks, kinda nervous

Edited by - kiko on 05/21/2014 23:41:45

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2402 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2014 : 11:03:35

I would look into installing new opening windows in the head.

Edited by - on

indyshelley
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2014 : 12:24:54

kiko,
I bet someone installed new head windows at some point. I believe most older C25s have the same aluminum single glass window as the others. Frank has a good idea.....it would be nice to upgrade to opening windows there. I'd also like to install one in the cockpit footwell above the quarter berth like the newer C25s have.
I can take a video next time I'm at the boat.

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.