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RUST EVERYWHERE

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frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/17/2005 : 12:38:33

The last time PennyII left the dock was in Sept. do to frequent trips to Arkansas. Last week, after our final trip, we went out to get PennyII some exercise and get the green stuff off the bottom. I was amazed at the rust on all the stantions and chainplates. Most was in the welded areas, but plenty of rust all over including the pedestail guard. I first had this problem with the chainplates a month after I got her. I cleaned the chainplates with naval jelly, but the rust keeps coming back so I just kept cleaning. This time rust is everywhere.
In the 16 years we owned the original Penny (79 C25 WK)we never had any chainplate or stantion rust.
The question is why on the new boat, but not the old? Is the stainless on the new not as good as the old i.e. less nickel in it? Or is it something else.

Frog and The General

C250, Pretty Penny II, #743
FLEET 25
Coronado 15, M-Cube, #3316

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2005 : 13:53:00

Frog, its hard to imagine the degree of disconcertion you may be feeling about this.

Because the rust is involved on the chainplates, stanchions and pedestal guard I'm thinking that it is not a problem with the stainless. Edson for example probably supplied the pedestal guard and not the stanchions and chainplates, and though I think Edson design sometimes misses the mark, I don't think they skimp on materiel quality. I'd suspect during the commissioning your boat was cleaned with brillo pads or steel wool or some other reaction to a cleaner or wax has taken place. Are you or the general taking heavy doses of iron capsuls?

It sounds like you will need to clean and repassivate.

We have not heard much mention of rust problems on the forum, though that doesn't mean that no other has occurred.

Here is just one link which suggest repassivation should work for 316 stainless.

http://www.finishing.com/331/94.html

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2005 : 14:00:51

Jerry,

Are there other boats in your marina with the same problem? Are the stancions the only ss equipment rusting this way? Any chance you are down wind from an acid rain producer? Is this a significant problem requiring constant attention or one that can be left alone and revisited every 4 or 5 months?

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2005 : 14:04:57

[url="http://www.ssina.com/download_a_file/cleaning.pdf"]The Care and Cleaning of Stainless Steel[/url] from the [url="http://www.ssina.com/index2.htm"]Stainless Steel Information Center[/url].

[url="http://www.ssina.com/faq.htm"]FAQ's from the SS Info Center[/url]

Edited by - dlucier on 01/17/2005 14:09:33

mday
Navigator

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197 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2005 : 15:50:16

From the link Arlyn placed, they said you can repassivate using "the right citric product". Now what might that be? Would some orange glow cleaner do the job? Or lemon juice? Or is a strong citric acid required?

Does this imply that Frog's use of Naval Jelly removed the passivation layer?

Note that they recommend avoiding chlorine containing products, although these never seemed to harm my stainless kitchen sink (i.e Comet and Soft Scrub with Bleach).

Max

Edited by - on

JJM
Navigator

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USA
170 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2005 : 16:08:29

Jerry,

I had the same problem with the chainplates on my 250 - hull #746 (very close to yours

) and I immediately complained to my dealer. There was an older 320 across from me that was hardly used yet it had no rusted chainplates. So, I wanted to know what the problem was?

He explained that it was a moisture reaction on the metal shrouds that was seeping down to the chainplates, and that it was a temporary situation. He also said that these shrouds are very durable, better quality than the old (new and improved

), and that this is the (small) price we pay. He said to clean it off and eventually it wouldn't come back. So, I cleaned the chainplates and I wiped the shrouds (as high as I could reach

) and actually the rusting has abated. So, he was correct.

I use Bon Ami with a toothbrush - a polishing compound that promises 'hasn't scratched yet' and I get excellent results.

I use it on all my exterior metals with equally good results.

Edited by - on

Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2005 : 11:36:43

Sorry Jerry but I can't imagine what would be doing it. I am just across the river from you and the only rust I find on my boat is were the cockpit knife stays in the cubby hole.

Edited by - on

Alan Therrien
Navigator

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USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2005 : 20:53:13

Jerry,

I had some rust on all my stainless the first year I owned the boat. Turned out the dealer didn't waste much wax in the commissioning process. I cleaned and polished everything with Flitz, then wiped clean and waxed. Each year I clean any minor rust with Flitz, and each year I apply a good coat of wax. No real rust issues since I've adopted this approach.

Edited by - on

cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2005 : 21:27:20

We've had some very minor surface rust on our chainplates & wheel (we don't have a pedstal guard) which we polish off every year. Nothing major. We have had problems with rust streaks under the new hardware on the rudder. Very disappointing & unsightly.

I'm not sure what could be causing the problem, but if both the hardware & the guard have rust then its probably environmental & not a material flaw.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2005 : 22:35:19

Thanks to all for the suggestions and I intend to do a lot more reading up on stainless.
Now to answer a few questions. PennyII was dropped at our local marina were they did the bottom job and installed the transducers. I did all the waxing and cleaning (no steel wool used). PennyII is docked at the same place as the orginial Penny, out my back door, so there has been no change in location. As far as I know no acid generating manufacturing plants have been builted in our area.
I will take a good look at the shrouds while cleaning everything in the next few days and see if they are rusting also.
Alan, what is Flitz and were can you get it?

Edited by - on

Alan Therrien
Navigator

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USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2005 : 19:03:13

Flitz is a stainless polish that I buy at West Marine/BoatUS. It's expensive, but seems to work well. Just be careful of the black residue the polish creates. It can get on the fiberglass and be a pain to clean off. I use a clean cloth to wipe the polish residue off, and clean up any mess with strong boat soap.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2005 : 00:24:36

Alan, thanks, I will look for it the next time at the local WM.

Edited by - frog0911 on 01/20/2005 00:25:12

Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2005 : 06:12:57

I can assure you that St. Johns Power Park is an acid producer. This is the one with the big cloud maker cooling towers. There is a mountain of coal out there and coal contains sulfur. Just look in that general direction next time your out and there is a high pressure weather system. On the other hand, Northside Generating which is right next to SJPP and discharges cooling water into the St. Johns River (both are JEA) has been repowered to use clean coal technology. They inject crushed and pulverized limestone into the boilers with the coal. All the bad stuff stays with the limestone and the smoke stack hardly has any discharge except during startup. But they do have a huge mountain of lime effluent. So all the stuff is still there, it's just on the ground and not in the air. It was supposed to be sold to make gypsum but the last I heard they are having problems with fly ash/ lime % content.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2005 : 09:15:50

Ben, know them well. I worked on Blount Island for 14 years. The coal fired plant was there when we had Penny, but no rust. We lost a lot of new car accounts to Ga. before they cleaned up the towers.

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frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2005 : 19:55:57

Rust update. I finally got the rust off the stantions, but could not get it all around the welds. The chainplates, again okay except for the welds. I tried brass wire brushes and scotch pads, both to no avail. While doing all this I found rust around all standing rigging swedge joints, were the wire goes in. I just happened to do a little top of mast work today and there is rust on the rigging swedge joints there also.
I ask again, can anyone explain this phenomenon or is my rigging just poor quality and I should be calling Catalina.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2005 : 20:28:04

Jerry - if you do manage to get all the rust off the swage joints, apply a little clear nail polish to them - it keeps off the moisture
and contaminants and still lets you see any corrosion. (It's a trick I learned on the Big Cat).
Derek

Edited by - on

Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2005 : 23:14:01

Jerry: You might want to get something on file with Catalina or call Frank Butler and see what he says...I'm in fresh water but will check the next time I get down to the boat...Dan #727

Edited by - on

Alan Therrien
Navigator

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USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2005 : 21:30:38

I'm no expert on rust, but I share your concern regarding the rust around the swage joints. It doesn't sound normal to me. I second the suggestion to touch base with Catalina, to see what they have to say on the issue.

I'd be interested to hear how this mystery turns out.

Edited by - on

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