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fish finder vs digital depth gauge?

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bmwtourer
Deckhand

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Canada
17 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/19/2020 : 20:00:22

I wonder if it is better to install a "simple" digital depth gauge or a fish finder with depth does the trick. I don't want to pierce the hull so an "in-hull" sensor is my preference ...
therefore considering of a budget of $400, what are the advantages vs disadvantages of a simple indicator like "Faria Chesapeake" vs fish finder like a Garmin Striker 4.
By the way for navigation I will use a tablet with navionic ...
Also a model recommendation is welcome ...
Thank you

Serge Pelletier
#161 1977 Catalina 25 swing keel
Serenity

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2020 : 07:38:44

I have a simple depth gauge from Hawkeye. It�s under $100 and it works great. I mounted the transducer inside the hull just under the companionway stairs. For example:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/HawkEye-DepthTrax-In-Dash-Digital-Depth-Finder/6006708

I saved my old depth finder gauge that was mounted to the cockpit bulkhead. I removed the old electronics and mounted this smaller device inside behind the glass. I use the same electrical power connections that I wired internally to the new unit and passed the transducer cable through the rear panel. It�s still working fine after 5 years.

At one point I bought a Lowrance fish finder for my fishing boat. It gave me a good view if the bottom terrain and occasionally claimed to see fishes! I mainly used the fish finder to see underwater structure like fallen trees, ledges, rocks and old piling. You know what they say, fish love structure!

I used the fish finder completely differently than the depth gauge.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

keats
Navigator

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USA
215 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2020 : 07:40:15

I like the Raymarine i40 because of the large, easy to read display.

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=2074024

It's $240 at Defender Marine and it will probably talk to any other devices you install.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2020 : 22:15:46

A fish finder is good for what it's name says--it sees fish directly below you and tells you what depth they're at--also where the bottom is right there. It isn't any additional help for sailing, where your concern is (1) how much water is below you and (2) what's ahead. A FF adds nothing for either. Only an expensive forward-scan sonar system helps for (2)--a chart plotter is better. I have a FF only because my radar/plotter package includes it, and uses the FF sounder to report the depth on the screen with the chart. I don't put the FF display on the screen with the others, 'cause I don't care whether there are fish under me, except when my grandson is here.

In terms of what talks to what, it's generally a question of whether they each support NMEA 1082 protocol or a NMEA 2000 network.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/20/2020 22:31:57

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2020 : 19:57:39

Maybe they are better now, but I had a lot of trouble with a simple Hawkeye depth finder and switched to an equally simple Lowrance Eagle Cuda 168 Fish Finder (not in color), from Bass Pro Shops, that read depth and did not require drilling a hole in the hull (toilet wax ring method) or drilling a hole in my bulkhead (removable mounting in the companionway). And it read depth just fine with enough forward movement warning, gave me something close to water temp, and a fun screen to look at occasionally, all for about $100, about 10 years ago. No idea what they cost now! I made a bracket for it that would allow me to set it just inside the companionway step on the port side so I would not need to remove it putting the boat away, although I couldremove it easily to set it aside.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Edited by - dmpilc on 01/01/2021 09:05:28

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2020 : 22:20:52

Fishfinder installed in 2005-2006 timeframe and works fine with transducer mounted in-hull below the Berth area. Fishfinder also provides a sense of the water bed which is of benefit if you sail where some areas are relatively shallow. (The fish finder does not actually map out the bottom contour over linear distance but since the depth contour line is tracked over time (seconds) it therefore gives a sense of the waterbed contour.) Fishfinder may not cost all that much more or equal to a depth gage. Fishfinder, at least mine, also provides water temperature and battery voltage. water temperature may be off in the summer time by a few degrees if transducer mounted in-hull since the cabin temperature may have some influence. I have a solar controller that also provides battery voltage, so that fidhfinder function not that useful for me...but it's there. More photos and install details on my website.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 12/21/2020 22:26:27

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2020 : 08:51:11

Speaking of something to play with, as I was looking up my old Lowrance FF I found the following cool idea.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Flytec-2011-5-Fish-Finder-1-5kg-Loading-500m-Remote-Control-Fishing-Bait-Boat-RC-Boat/936804308

It�s a small radio-controlled model boat with a built-in transducer that apparently connects back to a display by a data transmitter. You can drive the little model around looking for a fishy spot then drive your actual boat over to that spot.

What�s next?

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

bmwtourer
Deckhand

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Canada
17 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2020 : 08:59:44

Clever!

Serge Pelletier
#161 1977 Catalina 25 swing keel
Serenity

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1889 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2020 : 21:27:19

I've sailed boats equipped with a simple digital depth finder, with a very basic fish finder, and with a color chart plotter/GPS/fish finder/etc.

Graphic display
I found having a graphic display showing recent depth history very handy where I usually sail. It helps me anticipate how rapidly I'm heading into shallow water, and clearly shows whether I'm over natural bottom slope or the edge of a dredged channel. I used to be content with the basic low resolution monochrome fish finder in my Catalina 25, but it eventually developed too many dead pixels.

As Larry mentioned, modern chart plotters can display depth and lat-lon coordinates, nav chart w/breadcrumb trails, custom way-points, battery voltage, time of day, course over ground, water temp, probably what the fish under you last ate, and when.

When I picked up a Catalina 22 a few years ago, I installed a Lowrance Hook-7 with lots of bells and whistles. I ain't ever going back! I got a second Hook-7 which I'm installing in the Catalina 25. I don't know what that sort of chart plotter is selling for these days, relative to your budget. Even if it would be a bit of a stretch, I encourage you to go for it, or maybe get a 5" display if you can see it well enough.

Transducer mounting
I use a shoot-through transducer installation in a water-filled cylindrical housing bonded to the hull under the V-berth. The transducer and housing in the C22 is specifically designed for that application. In the C25, I plan to start with the small transom mount transducer which came with the Hook-7, mounted inside a large PVC plumbing clean-out already in the boat, left over from the previous fish finder.

Display mounting options
Having seen far too many abandoned and patched large holes in cockpit bulkheads, I'm very hesitant to cut any new ones. The only 'full size' holes in mine are for a round magnetic steering compass which never goes out of style.

For the rectangular graphics displays, I've been making surface mounted wooden housings, like heavy duty picture frames, with thru-holes only for wiring and mounting screws. I'll be sewing snug fitting Sunbrella slip covers for the display frames for weather protection when not in use. (The sunlight at this latitude, and salt air, are brutal.)

I tried one of those articulated adjustable mounts on the C22, but climbing past it in the companionway opening without bumping it out of position got old in a hurry.

� Leon Sisson

bmwtourer
Deckhand

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Canada
17 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2020 : 12:55:26

Thank you Leon, this is exactly what I was thinking...
but I was beginning to have second thoughts...
no longer!

would you have picture of the installation?

my Catalina has been cleanded and refreshed, now I do not have any holes in the cockpit bulkheads, took out the 2 large holes from previous instruments and the compass which I might reintall with some kind of surface mount. The cockpit is really clean.

I was think of installing the device on a pivoting stand from the interior... but would like to consider your idea...

Serge Pelletier
#161 1977 Catalina 25 swing keel
Serenity

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2020 : 14:28:06

I also did not want to make any additional holes in the companionway, since I already had from the PO, holes for the depthfinder, knotmeter and compass. Knotmeter was overhauled. Compass replaced. Both utilize existing holes.

It is not apparent from the photos I provided in above posting but the fishfinder install that utilizes a Ram Swing Arm is actually mounted with no holes, no screws etc to the companionway. The details and additional photos are on my website. Basically what I did was to use a piece of Starboard to cover the depthfinder hole on the exterior of the companionway. But the bolts that are drilled in that cover are actually passing thru the inside circle of the existing depthfinder hole - not bolted to the companionway. The bolts are actually attached to another piece of Starboard against the cabin side of the companionway. The bolts, when tightened, friction fit the two Starboard pieces together. The Starboard pieces can not rotate or slip because the interior Starboard material has one edge fitting snugly against the Fiberglas companionway opening edge. The Ram Swing arm is mounted only to the inside Starboard - So, again, no screws, holes, etc to the companionway. The Ram Swing arm can easily be pivoted inside for storage, away from the weather elements, or pivoted out for using it.

Anyway, there are many ways to install a fishfinder. You just have to figure out what is best for you.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

bmwtourer
Deckhand

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Canada
17 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2020 : 17:06:42

Larry, beautifull site!
I like the ram mount idea...

So you used a transom type transducer and "Wax"

it?

Serge Pelletier
#161 1977 Catalina 25 swing keel
Serenity

Edited by - bmwtourer on 12/24/2020 17:09:29

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2020 : 19:15:21

The manual definitely indicated the transducer could be mounted in-hull for reading depths to 400�. If not mounted in-hull, the fish finder would read depths to 1000� and I believe that was for transom mounting.. That glob from a toilet bowl wax ring has done the trick since 2005-2006 timeframe.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2020 : 23:46:01

The toilet wax seems to work for many people--the key is to avoid air bubbles. The solution seems to be to carefully knead the wax into a ball, squeezing out all air, then press that down on the hull to form a dome, and then press the transducer into the dome. Leon's water cylinder sounds like the ultimate in-hull solution (no air bubbles there), although more involved. (That's Leon!)

OK, I'll agree that a fish-finder's record of the bottom as you've passed over it can be a clue as to what might be coming, but it's important to remember it's only a "record" (not a "picture") of what you've gone over. By the time a fish finder spots something you could hit, you've already hit it (or will in about one more second. Mine can also be a little misleading in that it automatically changes zoom levels as the water gets shallower or deeper, so the graphical part can be misleading unless you watch the depth numbers.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 12/25/2020 : 06:58:23

Hummingbird fish finder for years. Love the temp info. Bottom display helps me decide if I have trees on the bottom, wouldn't want to anchor. Mounted mine low and like Larry's high mount better, You can close two hatch boards in the rain and still see depth. I can easily move mine just too lazy as of yet. Rammount.

I wax mounted my transponder below the oven and if I lean too far to strbrd it fails but I find I don't need depth at speed. but yes mount transponder up front is best.

This one has been working 6 years now.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 12/25/2020 : 08:51:31

Dave and Ray reminded me of a few things.
First, the fishfinder giving you a sense of the water bottom contour - It�s true that it does not see ahead of the boat but knowing the general area you sail, perhaps reviewing the depth chart, then observing the fishfinder depth contour line, you can get a feel of where you are and the depth contour likely ahead. In the Potomac River, near DC & Reagan Natl airport, the channel depths can range between 10-30 ft. But toward the center of the river, depending where you are, depths can range between 2-12 ft and the lower depths are from the south end of the airport and further south ~1/2 mile. The charts do not provide the minutia but for those sailing for years, realize that there is a sort of valley underneath very close to the airport side of the river which is actually slightly wider than the channel that runs along the DC side. So, knowing the basic contour of that valley, the fishfinder is a great tool to stay in that valley where the waters are usually between 4 -10� and avoid the more shallow water. So, the fishfinder does not see ahead but knowing t
He general contour of the area, the fishfinder definitely confirms the ends of that valley and avoiding the very shallow water.

Second, it Is true that the height of the Ram Swing mount and fishfinder does allow me to place two of the companionway hatch boards in place if there is potential for inclement weather and still view the fishfinder.

Third, while a Swing mount partially blocks the companionway, you can access the cabin without disturbing the fishfinder, if careful. But is so easy to Swing the fishfinder in or out with a twist of the adjusting knob, it is not a big deal. The reason I did not install the fishfinder on a fixed mounting to the cockpit side of the companionway was for a number of reasons - Exposed to weather elements and when used, the sun may make it hard to read. A Swing arm allows the fishfinder to be adjusted even with the companionway bulkhead or adjusted perhaps 2-3� inside the cabin shading it a bit from the sun. The main biggy that I did not install the fish finder on the exterior of the companionway was because it interferes with my spouse or I resting our backs against the companionway bulkhead (cockpit side). As it is, on the other side of the companionway, the compass sticks out a bit - But what I sometimes do is put one of the plain bulky life preservers on the companionway side and that around the compass, more or less provides a flat surface if one wants to rest their back against it.
So much for sailboat ergonomics!

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 12/25/2020 09:00:05

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1889 Posts

Response Posted - 12/25/2020 : 18:27:41

Re: "would you have picture of the installation?"

OK, I'll try... These images are from two different boats. If you just want to see examples of what I posted about above, that detail may not matter much. Let me start by apologizing for the unimpressive photo quality. It's cold out there, and I was in a hurry.

The old, very basic fish finder
Three main pieces of the display installation:

Teak frame around head unit:

Sunbrella cover in place:

Rear view of the whole stack:

The Lowrance Hook-7 installed in a Catalina 22
Head unit with wooden frame in the cockpit:

Head unit installation as viewed from cabin:

With probably more screws than absolutely necessary. The more I thought about someone using it for a step, the more screws I added.

Transducer housing under V-berth is the large black thing to the right. (The smaller lump to the left is a transducer from some previous depth finder, abandoned in place before I got the boat.):

Home made electrical panel showing 5.A circuit breaker for Hook-7 (just above the empty hole near the center of the panel):

Sorry about the distracting reflection � I didn't notice that until I copied the photo to a computer.

The Catalina 25 old fish finder removed to Hook-7 not yet installed
Transducer housing under V-berth made from PVC cleanout:

PVC cleanout cover open showing Hook-7 transducer:

Sorry about the plumbing blocking view of transducer attachment. It's a typical transom mount screwed to a lump of thickened epoxy inside the PVC forming a thick flat spot for tapped holes.

Cockpit bulkhead showing scars from multiple previous instrument installations:

I think the circle with four small holes around it was probably for a magnetic compass. I installed my compass high on the port side, then used the circular fiberglass cutout from that to fill this hole on the stbd side. The pair of 3/4" or so holes are from wiring to the old fish finder. The four small holes around those two are from wooden frame mounting screws. The hazy gray stripes are tape residue from trying to keep rain out.

I agree with Larry, being able to comfortably lean back against the bulkhead is important. My Contest 101 compass only sticks out an inch or two, and is just above shoulder height when using the bulkhead as a backrest, so I hardly notice it.

On the Catalina 22, the wooden frame around the Hook-7 is about the same thickness as one of those square floatation cushions. On the Catalina 25, I may fabricate the wooden frame deeper, creating room to tilt the display for a better viewing angle. I expect it to stick out no more than two cushions. Maybe I can find a horse collar life preserver to fit around it.

If a RAM mount in the companionway works for you, go for it. It's definitely a lot easier than building a wooden frame.

� Leon Sisson

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 12/25/2020 : 19:09:05

Leon, so you made the teak frame? Frame looks great. Where did you buy the teak and was it in the thickness you needed, then had to miter for the joints ?

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1889 Posts

Response Posted - 12/26/2020 : 00:28:43

Larry,

I'm glad you like the wood frames.

Re: "Where did you buy the teak and was it in the thickness you needed, then had to miter for the joints?"

I made the square frame for the older fish finder from a section of teak hand rail cap salvaged from an ancient wooden motor yacht at an old time marina where I once worked. It already had a wide, shallow groove in the back side to fit over a flat metal railing. The curved cross section was original too. I didn't have a table saw back then, so I had a neighbor with one trim off one edge, leaving exactly enough depth so that the remaining edge of the groove would capture the fish finder. He also cut the 45� miters. All I had to do was glue it together, drill mounting holes, sand, and apply finish. To prevent the display from rattling around, I pinched a short piece of small hose behind it, forcing it out against the remaining inner lip of the teak frame.

For the rectangular frame around the Hook-7, I started with a 3/4" x 6" mahogany plank from a large varnished wood custom outdoor wet bar a neighbor was throwing away. (I have what may be a lifetime supply of teak and mahogany from that windfall!) The Hook-7 shape and built-in tapped mounting holes made it practical to fabricate four aluminum angle mounting brackets to attach it to the frame. The wide shallow notch in the lower edge of the frame allows access to the handle of the snap on plastic cover.

� Leon Sisson

bmwtourer
Deckhand

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Canada
17 Posts

Response Posted - 12/26/2020 : 12:30:25

thank you Leon for the pictures, the frames looks really nice.
I will install a 7" fish finder but not decided which one yet, I might expand my budget quite a bit...
regarding positionning, I do not want to make holes and will opt for a RAM mount.
As you can see from the picture below, I hope to be able to see through the window during rain...

the removable doors are not completed yet and i need to add the handle and the faceplate to the sliding hatch...

... btw i do not have a picture from cockpit before my cleanup but i do have one from inside...

thank you all for your answers you helped me make my mind...

Serge Pelletier
#161 1977 Catalina 25 swing keel
Serenity

Edited by - bmwtourer on 12/26/2020 12:39:39

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 12/26/2020 : 15:29:36

Leon,
Reusing the teak and the teak having a past history - Great idea and sort of a collector's item.

Serge,
Those companionway doors have a great look and fit-up! Looks tinted....Not sure if the fish finder display will show thru the tint. May want to use something that has similar display behind the tint and see if it is visible - Maybe use an IPAD or whatever that would be similar display and see how visible it is thru the tint viewing it from the cockpit.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

bmwtourer
Deckhand

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Canada
17 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2020 : 15:57:05

quote:
Originally posted by OLarryR

... Looks tinted....

yes they are, good idea to test wit ipad, will have to wait till spring because she is all wrapped up!

worst case I will build another side with clear plexiglass, especially the side with the device.

here what she looks like now

Serge Pelletier
#161 1977 Catalina 25 swing keel
Serenity

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2020 : 19:55:00

I just flipped my lower companionway board around and mounted my Humminbird depth finder to it. When I�m done sailing I unplug it, flip the board around and it�s safely tucked away inside.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2020 : 14:13:35

quote:
Originally posted by GaryB

I just flipped my lower companionway board around and mounted my Humminbird depth finder to it. When I�m done sailing I unplug it, flip the board around and it�s safely tucked away inside.

Genius!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

johnnyd
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2020 : 10:17:33

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

I have a simple depth gauge from Hawkeye. It�s under $100 and it works great. I mounted the transducer inside the hull just under the companionway stairs. For example:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/HawkEye-DepthTrax-In-Dash-Digital-Depth-Finder/6006708

I saved my old depth finder gauge that was mounted to the cockpit bulkhead. I removed the old electronics and mounted this smaller device inside behind the glass. I use the same electrical power connections that I wired internally to the new unit and passed the transducer cable through the rear panel. It�s still working fine after 5 years.

At one point I bought a Lowrance fish finder for my fishing boat. It gave me a good view if the bottom terrain and occasionally claimed to see fishes! I mainly used the fish finder to see underwater structure like fallen trees, ledges, rocks and old piling. You know what they say, fish love structure!

I used the fish finder completely differently than the depth gauge.

johnnyd
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2020 : 10:40:07

I am looking to do the same thing with the hawkeye. Just wondering if the water that accumulates under the companioway stairs affects the in hull transducer? Also how accurate it is when mounting in that location?

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

I have a simple depth gauge from Hawkeye. It�s under $100 and it works great. I mounted the transducer inside the hull just under the companionway stairs. For example:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/HawkEye-DepthTrax-In-Dash-Digital-Depth-Finder/6006708

I saved my old depth finder gauge that was mounted to the cockpit bulkhead. I removed the old electronics and mounted this smaller device inside behind the glass. I use the same electrical power connections that I wired internally to the new unit and passed the transducer cable through the rear panel. It�s still working fine after 5 years.

At one point I bought a Lowrance fish finder for my fishing boat. It gave me a good view if the bottom terrain and occasionally claimed to see fishes! I mainly used the fish finder to see underwater structure like fallen trees, ledges, rocks and old piling. You know what they say, fish love structure!

I used the fish finder completely differently than the depth gauge.

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.