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 Headsail
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Diversion32
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/30/2020 :  12:39:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi all,
It’s time to replace my original furling 110 headsail. I was wondering if I should go with the 135 as a replacement to get more on light air days or will I have to reef it too often on windier days to make it worth it? I have a 250WK.
Thanks!

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2249 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2020 :  12:49:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is your furler FF2 or FF4? If it’s FF2, the drum may be too small for 135.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Edited by - TakeFive on 06/30/2020 12:49:45
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Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
792 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2020 :  16:00:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ken,

Welcome to the forum.
It would help if you list your boat model, year, and hull/sail number.
You can add that to your forum profile using the signature field.

When I bought my boat, the 110-jib was standard and the 135-jib was an upgrade.
both would fit on the factory furler.

I recommend a larger headsail, because the 110-jib is easily overpowered by the main.
Check how much extra line you have on the furler and if there is room for more.

Here's things to consider:
Are you a family sailor where heel angle is an issue? (small jib, low heel).
Do you sail more on calm days where getting back to the dock means using the outboard? (big jib, more power).
How often do you currently reef the mainsail? (if you don't need to reef the main, that gives a sign what kind of weather is in your area).



Russ Johnson
2005 C250WB Hull 793
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Diversion32
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2020 :  17:32:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a 2001 250 WK. I have the CDI FF 4/6 (which I assume is the 4 but it’s labelled 4/6) and there appears to be plenty of space for more furling line.

I mainly sail solo and have a difficult (3 point turn) into the slip so I prefer lighter days. Since the boat seems to handle much better at lower heel angles, I err on the side of caution and reef the main and/or headsail once the wind picks up.

I do notice the jib does seem to get lost behind the main downwind in light air so I was thinking the 135 might work better.
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Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
792 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2020 :  19:55:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ken,

IMHO, I would go for a 135-jib.
The sail balance is better and it will give you more power on light days.
Sometimes the previous owner will shorten the “extra” furling line.
Catalina Direct offers headsails.
They also have a “Winter Special” if you can wait that long.

Here’s a link, so you can compare with your local sail loft.
https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/catalina-250/sails/catalina-250-headsls/


Russ Johnson
2005 C250WB Hull 793
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solvasoncc
1st Mate

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USA
61 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2020 :  08:54:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not all CDI FF4 are the same as well. Some are a bushing style and others have ball bearings. My 2000 is a bushing style with a 110, which is difficult for my crew to furl in 22kts. I plan to upgrade to the bearings.

https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/catalina-270/rigging/furling-gear/ball-bearing-retrofitreplacement-for-cdi-ff4-or-ff6/


Charles
Catalina 250 WK SR
Hull #475 "Surfline"
College Station, TX
Texas Solvasons

Edited by - solvasoncc on 07/01/2020 08:58:26
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HappyNow
1st Mate

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USA
94 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2020 :  13:59:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I upgraded to the ball bearings a few years ago. Highly recommend it. Makes a world of difference. I have never had a problem furling since. The guy at CDI is very friendly and helpful (he's Canadian) if you have any questions.

Michael Levin
Sailin' on Sunshine
C250 #402 WK
Lake Tahoe
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WK 727
1st Mate

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USA
63 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2020 :  16:03:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I love this topic, 110 vs 135 for a headsail on our C250's. Why? Because, there is no definitive answer and it always boils down to "it depends". It depends on where you typically sail, typical conditions, is this your only headsail for all conditions and the all important points of sail, because everything is a compromise.

My experience and opinion: I had the factory 135 and it was limited to light air and pointing upwind. It performed well in this condition and point of sail. Broad reach and downwind, the sail lost shape and performance by rubbing on lifelines and the pulpit. The first compromise I chose was a high cut tack. I wanted one sail for all points of sail at the expense of a slightly higher center of effort for the sail. If I had an upwind sail and a downwind sail this is a terrible thought. I am a casual sailor wanting one headsail for all points of sail, hence the high cut tack. Open for debate.

The location of the tracks on the C250 don't allow the cars to be far enough back to tighten the foot of the sail to spill air for proper twist at the top if a 135 genoa is used in modest to heavy wind conditions. So the resulting action is to reef the headsail. The car is left at the back and the foot is tightened from reefing to spill the wind. Problem solved but for the wrong reason, again my opinion.

The tracks can't be relocated so the variable is the sail size. I chose a custom 125 to match the location of the tracks. I have had it for several seasons and love it. I can tighten the foot and spill excess wind in heavy conditions and have correct sail shape in all points of sail with the high cut tack.

Sail area is important (135 vs 110), but not as critical as the ability to manage sail shape or the quality of the sail. Hopefully this stimulates the conversation.

Regards, John
04 Catalina 250 WK
Standard rig w/wheel steering
Yanmar 9hp diesel
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Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
792 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2020 :  17:51:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by WK 727

I love this topic, 110 vs 135 for a headsail on our C250's. Why? Because, there is no definitive answer and it always boils down to "it depends".


John,
You bring up some points that I hadn’t considered.
Since the 110 and 135 were both factory options for that model year, you would think the tracks would support it. The 110 and 135 were offered for both WB and WK models.

Note, for early models, 1995, 1996 the jib tracks were really short.
You can see the short tracks on the Sales Brochure
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/manbro/manbro.asp

Russ Johnson
2005 C250WB Hull 793

Edited by - Russ.Johnson on 07/01/2020 18:06:07
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Halcyon
Deckhand

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USA
2 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2020 :  06:12:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a practically new 135 Genoa that I am willing to sell. It’s bigger than I expected and doesn’t work with the current/original rigging. My 250 is a 1996 and the shrouds are mounted near the rub rail, not on the cabin top. The newer C250 are rigged to use a 135 better. Message me if your interested.
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CGSC_Gaviota
Deckhand

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USA
8 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2020 :  07:46:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
After sailing for a year with the 110, I cannot recommend going to the 135 enough. The better balance in handling, the better boat speed ( MUCH better boat speed! ) and pointing are definitely worth it, especially on the WK version that we have.

That said, get lots of the rigging tape to wrap up your stanchions and sail tape for some of the chafe points on the lifelines.

We reef the main first, leaving the genny all the way out until the second reef in the mail and then roll up the genny a little, like 2 feet. This worked for us in up to 25kts of air.
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
8635 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2020 :  07:56:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Russ.Johnson

...Since the 110 and 135 were both factory options for that model year, you would think the tracks would support it...
But to get a sheeting angle John wants with a higher clew, the car will have to be further back on the track than with a standard-height clew. I presume Catalina didn't anticipate that in the design.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-USCG-OUPV
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5521 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2020 :  08:34:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I never owned a C250, and I'm not sure from the brochure photo if the short track will support a 135. It might. But genoa track isn't expensive or generally difficult to install, unless there's something about the C250 that makes it difficult to install. My inclination would be to install a longer track, if necessary. Whether you need a 110 or 135 depends on how strong the typical ambient winds are at your sailing venue. If you need a 135 for light air at your venue, it's reasonable to make a minor modification to your boat to support one.

I'd buy the sail and see if you can trim it correctly with your existing track, which does have room to move back some. If necessary, I'd install a track another foot or 15" longer.

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("Fahrvergnügen")
Past Commodore
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