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Dropping the mast on a C25 using the boom

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n5ama
Deckhand

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USA
16 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/11/2020 : 19:54:32

I ran across a article from the May 2018 Catalina Yachts owners� magazine, (Mainsheet). It provided instruction for lowering the mast of the C25 using the boom. Of course the mast was dropped foward versus the conventional method of using a gin pole and dropping it over the stern.

I need to change the coax on my VHF antenna so it will be a quick drop (not disconnecting it from the base plate) and back up again. It appears to be a simple process and I would like to simplify it a bit more by leaving the mainsail in place on the boom. I can't see why this would cause a problem with this technique.

Link to the article:

https://lifeempirically.com/2018/03/11/dropping-the-mast-on-a-catalina-25-or-similar-boat/

Do any of you with more experience than me think this is viable?

Thanks in advance.
Tom

Tom
1987 C-25 TR-WK #5577 Traditional interior
Tiger Tom
Nassau Bay, TX

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2020 : 04:16:20

That is well explained and is doable IMO. You probably only need to go to step 11. Remember that when you lay the mast down forward you need more room in front of the boat than what is needed laying it down backward.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 05/12/2020 04:19:06

n5ama
Deckhand

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16 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2020 : 06:07:09

I thought it looked very doable and the part that really caught my attention was not having to pull the mainsail. I also have lazy jacks installed and the less of that stuff I have to pull off the better.

I'm in a slip that has a lot of room forward and is about the right elevation for me to get at the antenna. Should be able to drop the mast, do the work including re-seal the stanchions and do a visual on the running rigging in a few hours.

Thanks

Tom
1987 C-25 TR-WK #5577 Traditional interior
Tiger Tom
Nassau Bay, TX

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2020 : 06:39:47

I've never used that method to lower the mast, and it does look do-able, but, looking at the photo, it appears to me that he has an extraordinarily long mainsheet, and that presents a problem. First, before you use that method, you'll need to buy a long enough mainsheet. If you use an extra-long mainsheet, you'll find that it's constantly under foot while sailing. Your feet will slip when you step on it and try to brace yourself when heeling, and it will frequently become a tangled mess, and it won't run freely through the blocks when you need to ease the mainsheet under sail.

If you're going to have to buy an extra-long line anyway, I suggest you continue using your existing mainsheet for sailing the boat, and buy an inexpensive length of line to be used primarily for mast raising and lowering. A long length of line is handy to have on board for other purposes, such as towing another boat, or docking, or rafting with another boat, etc.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 05/12/2020 07:04:52

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2020 : 06:48:38

quote:

I'm in a slip that has a lot of room forward

On your tall rig its going to hang out about 20ft give or take.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

keats
Navigator

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215 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2020 : 08:35:31

Good time to check the lighting Tom and maybe upgrade to approved LEDs if you haven't.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2020 : 09:50:48

Using that method, and a 3:1 purchase, I would think you will need at least 70-75 ft of 3/8" line for the mainsheet, 100 ft for 4:1. I like Steve's idea. Go get an inexpensive 100 ft 3-strand 3/8" anchor line to use instead of your good mainsheet. Then keep the 100 ft line onboard for your lunch hook or spare anchor or emergencies. If you have someone to help you, then you might not need the 2 guy lines. your helper could hold the boom upright. For doing it the first time, it might be a good idea to remove your mainsail, especially if it is fairly new. The jack lines could stay in place.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/12/2020 : 10:01:33

Remember also that the 30 ft tall rig mast is a thicker extrusion than the standard rig mast and, therefore, a bit heavier. Also, you might want to place a 6 ft ladder under the mast near the top while it is down and you are working on it. You don't want to be putting any downward pressure on the tip of the mast while it is resting only on the bow pulpit, in spite of the "mainsheet" line supporting it, putting unwanted upward pressure on the mast base hardware.
Just thinking a little extra cautious here!

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Edited by - dmpilc on 05/12/2020 10:02:18

TCurran
Admiral

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Response Posted - 05/12/2020 : 16:10:55

When I had my C-25 I used this method a couple of times, works great. I connected the vang and main sheet to ensure I had enough line to get the mast all the way down. Good luck!

Tom Curran
1981 Capri 25 Hull #101 "Dirty Debbie"
1988 Watkins 30
PAFB, FL

Edited by - TCurran on 05/12/2020 16:11:35

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2020 : 16:27:17

If you're looking for a quick, uncomplicated method for raising and lowering a mast, the method we used at Brookville Lake in southern Indiana works well. We needed three adult males to do the "heavy lifting" and one woman or teenager to control a safety line.

To prepare for it, I removed the boom, with the mainsail still on it, and put it in the cabin. I tied a long line to the jib halyard and cleated it to a bow cleat. That line held the mast up while I disconnected the forestay. Next, I loosened the upper shrouds slightly and completely disconnected the forward lower stays. That took about 10-15 minutes.

Then I walked down the dock and found the necessary helpers, described above.

I stationed two men at the mast to hold it up temporarily while I uncleated the line from the bow cleat. I wrapped that line once around the bow pulpit and gave it to a person on the dock to hold it securely, as a control line. Next, I loosened the mast tabernacle bolt through the base of the mast. Then the two men at the mast would begin walking the mast down, aft. The person holding the control line would keep tension on it and ease it out slowly, to ensure that the mast came down under control. When the two men got to the end of the coach roof, one would step down into the cockpit and hold the mast while the other man stepped down. They would let the mast down further and move to the back of the cockpit. When the mast was down, I sat on the end of the mast to hold it down while I removed the mast tabernacle bolt. Then the three of us walked the mast forward and laid it on the bow pulpit and taffrail. We put scraps of carpet under it to prevent scratches, and lashed it to the rails to secure it.

I could lower my mast in 15-20 minutes using that method, and raise it in about 20-30 minutes, bearing in mind that you have to re-tune the rig after it's up. You only need your helpers for about 5 minutes each way, which is nice if you had to round up volunteers from the dock.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

n5ama
Deckhand

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16 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2020 : 18:50:03

"do the work including re-seal the stanchions"

OOPS, shrouds,not stanchions.

Tom
1987 C-25 TR-WK #5577 Traditional interior
Tiger Tom
Nassau Bay, TX

n5ama
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 05/12/2020 : 19:23:57

quote:
Originally posted by islander

quote:

I'm in a slip that has a lot of room forward

On your tall rig its going to hang out about 20ft give or take.

I've got well over 100' available in front of the boat. I should be ok with a red flag tied on the end.LOL

I purchased 100' of 3/8" poly. I think the working load is 150#. I plan to do a 4:1 and was hoping the small working load spec would be sufficient. What do you think.
I'm pulling my mainsheet for this job.

I've built a adjustable X frame to support near the top of the mast. The only thing I'm really concerned about is the fixed location of the X frame on land and the less than fixed position of the boat. It's normally fairly calm at this slip but if not on the day I attempt the work, I'll wait for a smoother day.

My steaming lights have been upgraded to LED and I'm seriously thinking about the anchor lights. Thanks for getting my mind refocused on more than the wormy coax.

I'm planning to do this totally solo. I haven't seen 3 people in the slip area in a month. Port Aransas was the ground zero for a cat 4 hurricane and the sailing community has been slow to recover.

I really appreciate all the feedback. BTW, the stuff on the right hand margin has me as a visitor or something. I think I'm a 24 carat dues paid member at least according to Russ Johnson.

Tom
1987 C-25 TR-WK #5577 Traditional interior
Tiger Tom
Nassau Bay, TX

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2020 : 18:05:17

While you have the mast down it�s always a good time to check all the toggles, pins and cotter pins, screws, bolts, nuts and other fasteners. I always tighten my wind vane base and spike, and dab on some locktite.

Testing the VHF connections is very problematic. You can check continuity however you can�t easily measure VSWR which is a measure of the power efficiency of the cable, connections and antenna.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

n5ama
Deckhand

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USA
16 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2020 : 07:25:43

Hi Bruce,
Thanks for the reminder on things to check while I have the mast down. I would have missed a few of those items.

I have a bird wattmeter to check reflected power at the coax coming down from the antenna and again at the radio. I should be ok.

Thanks again.

Tom
1987 C-25 TR-WK #5577 Traditional interior
Tiger Tom
Nassau Bay, TX

RockB
Deckhand

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20 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2020 : 12:16:14

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager
Testing the VHF connections is very problematic. You can check continuity however you can�t easily measure VSWR which is a measure of the power efficiency of the cable, connections and antenna.

Do a google search to see if there is a local amateur radio club in your area. If so reach out to them. Someone will have an SWR meter and they may not mind coming down to your boat for 5-10 minutes to put it inline to test.

For the most part ham radio operators are a friendly and helpful group of folks.

Bill
1979 Catalina 25 SK #936
Panama City, FL
https://freeboatproject.com

Edited by - RockB on 05/16/2020 12:17:01

n5ama
Deckhand

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USA
16 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2020 : 12:37:12

Hi Bill

Thanks for the suggestion on the ham radio operators as a source for help. Actually, I�m one of those and have the equipment to do the tests.#128513;

I haven�t gotten any feedback on replacing the mainsheet with 100� of 3/8 poly line. I was expecting a comment that the working load (150#) of the poly line using 3:1 would break under the strain and I would die.#9785;#65039;

What do you think?

Tom

Tom
1987 C-25 TR-WK #5577 Traditional interior
Tiger Tom
Nassau Bay, TX

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2020 : 04:35:42

use 1/2 inch. I can assure you.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2020 : 05:30:55

I googled "working load of 3/8 inch poly rope" and it appears most have a working load over 300 lbs. Your comment that your line only has a working load of 150 lbs must either be mistaken, or it must be really bad line. 1/2" would probably not run through the blocks.

Personally, I don't use poly rope for anything on a boat. It is much more susceptible to UV degradation than nylon, and it has no significant stretch (which makes it unsuitable for anchor line or towing line or dock lines or practically any other marine use.) I'd rather pay more for line and then be able to use it for other purposes.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

n5ama
Deckhand

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USA
16 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2020 : 05:41:25

Ok, thanks for the reply.

I would be using the line only for the purpose of dropping my mast. I�m thinking the 1/2� line won�t go thru the main sheet blocks. I would rather not use a expensive line to step the mast because it is hopefully a one time exercise but at the same time I really don�t want to have the line break with the mast at a 45 degree angle.

Tom
1987 C-25 TR-WK #5577 Traditional interior
Tiger Tom
Nassau Bay, TX

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2020 : 12:09:26

quote:
Originally posted by n5ama

I haven�t gotten any feedback on replacing the mainsheet with 100� of 3/8 poly line. I was expecting a comment that the working load (150#) of the poly line using 3:1 would break under the strain and I would die.#9785;#65039;

What do you think?

Tom

Hi Tom,

Below is a link to the original rigging list for the C25. I've been told the reason Catalina specified 75' for the Mainsheet was so that the mast could be dropped forward. The rest of the time, it's like Steve says: you'll have extra line in the cockpit. My Mainsheet is 75'. We just leave the extra line on the floor at the back of the cockpit.

Any decent line designed for mainsheet use should be strong enough. I've used Samson and Novabraid line for rigging in the past and have been happy with both.

https://whichsailboat.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/original-rigging-list.gif

Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/

Edited by - sethp001 on 05/19/2020 12:18:39

n5ama
Deckhand

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USA
16 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2020 : 05:46:45

Thanks Seth!
I have 100� of double braid nylon that I�ll use for the task. I�ve got mixed signals on it�s working load from a minimum of 300# to 425#. I�ll watch it closely and stop if it looks like it is having issues.

Tom

Tom
1987 C-25 TR-WK #5577 Traditional interior
Tiger Tom
Nassau Bay, TX

n5ama
Deckhand

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USA
16 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2020 : 05:49:26

BTW, it looks like our boats are close cousins. I plan to take my boat for a 5 day trip next week assuming the weather behaves in the Gulf of Mexico.

Tom
1987 C-25 TR-WK #5577 Traditional interior
Tiger Tom
Nassau Bay, TX

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